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Workflow for shooting 3D with 2D elements

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Michael Kammes
Workflow for shooting 3D with 2D elements
on Jul 11, 2011 at 10:43:55 pm

I'm fleshing out a concept I have for a short web piece, and working through the After Effects workflow. Not being a power user, I'd appreciate some input.

First, I'll be shooting with a 3D camera.

I'd either shooting a host on a green screen with a 2D virtual set, or shooting in a "real" environment - with a host.

Regardless of virtual set or reality, an over-the-shoulder "monitor" will be in place (think Web Soup, Talk Soup, Tosh.0. etc) to show content.

So,
Scenario 1: 2D virtual set, virtual monitor & real host
Scenario 2: Actual set, virtual monitor, and real host.

Remember, all live action will be shot with a 3D camera.

I also envision graphic icons at the bottom and/or the host interacting with a virtual touch screen (Minority Report, etc.). I would want these to be in a 3D space as well.

I anticipate approaching thusly:

I place every 2d graphic image on a different place on the Z axis (while aligning with the existing 3D footage) and change focus if needed, and export each video stream (eye) when finished.

Previously, I have I have done this with only 2d graphics to give the illusion of 3D, (seen here: http://tv.adobe.com/watch/stereoscopic-3d/ae-cs55-the-new-stereoscopic-3d-c... ) …..but never adding 2D graphics, putting them on a z axis and incorporating them with 3D footage - is this possible?

Keep in mind, I'd like real 3D, as opposed to ONLY a series of flat planes on a Z axis. Am I approaching this the wrong way? Any the input?

Thanks!

~Michael



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Walter Soyka
Re: Workflow for shooting 3D with 2D elements
on Jul 12, 2011 at 12:51:06 am

[Michael Kammes] "I'd either shooting a host on a green screen with a 2D virtual set, or shooting in a "real" environment - with a host."

Will a 2D virtual set give you the look you need?


[Michael Kammes] "I also envision graphic icons at the bottom and/or the host interacting with a virtual touch screen (Minority Report, etc.). I would want these to be in a 3D space as well... I place every 2d graphic image on a different place on the Z axis (while aligning with the existing 3D footage) and change focus if needed, and export each video stream (eye) when finished... Previously, I have I have done this with only 2d graphics to give the illusion of 3D, (seen here: http://tv.adobe.com/watch/stereoscopic-3d/ae-cs55-the-new-stereoscopic-3d-c..... ) …..but never adding 2D graphics, putting them on a z axis and incorporating them with 3D footage - is this possible?

Sure -- 2D graphics in 3D space with a stereoscopic camera rig is real stereo 3D.

Remember that the talent and your graphics will exist in separate but layered 3D spaces; the talent layer isn't a real 3D layer as far as AE is concerned, so it can't automatically handle positioning and obscuration.

You should try to match the virtual camera rig to the physical camera rig as closely as possible, to avoid perspective problems as the host reaches forward toward the camera to interact with the elements.

If the camera isn't locked down, you'll need a very tight track and solve.

Can you add some time for pre-vis or workflow testing to the schedule?


[Michael Kammes] "Keep in mind, I'd like real 3D, as opposed to ONLY a series of flat planes on a Z axis."

So are the graphics supposed to be 2D, or 3D? If 3D, then you'll need to use an effect like Zaxwerks or juggle camera data between your 3D app of choice and AE.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Michael Kammes
Re: Workflow for shooting 3D with 2D elements
on Jul 12, 2011 at 2:13:40 pm

"Will a 2D virtual set give you the look you need?"

and

"Can you add some time for pre-vis or workflow testing to the schedule?"

There is no schedule set yet; which is why I'm jumping on this now to work out the kinks and approach. I don't know if the 2D Virtual set will give me the look I want or need.

So are the graphics supposed to be 2D, or 3D? If 3D, then you'll need to use an effect like Zaxwerks or juggle camera data between your 3D app of choice and AE.

Well, initially 2D. I have aspirations of incorporating 3D graphics into the shot 3D space, but initially, 2D graphics may work.

I suppose I'll just have to shoot some 3D footage, put it in the comp and just try it out.

Have you come across any tutorials which may cover some of this -at least, the concept of placing 2D (or 3d) graphics within 3D shot footage?

Is there a better app to do this in?

Al always, thanks Walter.

~Michael



.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.com
.: twitter: @michaelkammes
.: facebook: /mkammes

Hear me pontificate: Speaking Schedule .


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Walter Soyka
Re: Workflow for shooting 3D with 2D elements
on Jul 12, 2011 at 5:53:18 pm

Unfortunately, I'm at the limit of my practical experience now -- anything else I say will be theoretical beyond this point.

Have you gone through all the resources from Todd Kopriva's blog entry stereoscopic 3D in After Effects CS5.5 [link]?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Michael Kammes
Re: Workflow for shooting 3D with 2D elements
on Jul 12, 2011 at 2:35:16 pm


Another question; I had planned on using Cineform (i.e. 1 QT file, with both eyes 'inside') , but for working in AE, would be it best to work with separate eye QT files?



.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.com
.: twitter: @michaelkammes
.: facebook: /mkammes

Hear me pontificate: Speaking Schedule .


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