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Apple ProRes CODEC question. Is there an alternative for this scenario?

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Clay VernonApple ProRes CODEC question. Is there an alternative for this scenario?
by on May 25, 2011 at 6:57:59 pm

My band just shot a music video. We are being asked what codec that we'd like it digitized in.

My first thought is Apple ProRes as we're editing in FCP.

But I know that we'll have to do some post in After Effects.

Are there any concerns with Apple ProRes in CS5 ??

If so, are there workarounds I should know about ?

Or should I have them digitize it into a different codec to begin with ??

-Clay


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Dave LaRondeRe: Apple ProRes CODEC question. Is there an alternative for this scenario?
by on May 25, 2011 at 7:19:45 pm

As long as you run AE on the SAME MAC that you use for the FCP editing, you should be okay.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Darby EdelenRe: Apple ProRes CODEC question. Is there an alternative for this scenario?
by on May 25, 2011 at 8:31:23 pm

[Clay Vernon] "Are there any concerns with Apple ProRes in CS5 ??"

Nope, I use ProRes all the time.

However, it's a codec that is not installed with QuickTime, but rather with Final Cut Pro. So you'll need to either a) work on the system you have FCP on or b) copy the codecs from that system to any other systems you'd like to work on.

Darby Edelen


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Clay VernonRe: Apple ProRes CODEC question. Is there an alternative for this scenario?
by on May 25, 2011 at 9:13:43 pm

Well, I have it on my system. I use it all the time with FCP.

I read that there were color issues with 422 and Adobe products
http://blogs.adobe.com/toddkopriva/2009/03/prores-422-colors-in-after-eff.h...

I didn't know of any with 4444, but wanted to make sure before they gave me something that I'd need to change later myself.

But it sounds as if there are no issues, right?


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Walter SoykaRe: Apple ProRes CODEC question. Is there an alternative for this scenario?
by on May 25, 2011 at 10:11:27 pm

You had to modify the interpretation rules for CS3 (and maybe CS4), but CS5 imports and exports ProRes quite nicely.

There is one issue to be aware of with CS5 and ProRes 4444 transparency [link] (fixed in CS5.5).

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Bill KellyRe: Apple ProRes CODEC question. Is there an alternative for this scenario?
by on May 26, 2011 at 3:02:33 am

You may have a gamma shift problem when you render out from AE in ProRes and then bring it back into Final Cut. To fix this and put it back to normal, go to the imported clip's Item Properties, then Format, and change the Alpha setting to 1.8



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Walter SoykaRe: Apple ProRes CODEC question. Is there an alternative for this scenario?
by on May 26, 2011 at 2:51:25 pm

I don't think the information in Bill's post applies to ProRes. ProRes should not have any gamma shift on import into FCP, as the correct color space and gamma are determined by the frame size. ProRes used to suffer gamma shifts on import to AE on earlier versions, but this was fixable with the interpretation rules edit detailed in Todd's blog post.

The gamma setting (not alpha as described above) is only available for RGB-based video codecs (like Animation). It's not available for YUV-based codecs (like ProRes). If your renders from AE to FCP in the Animation codec are shifting, you can adjust their gamma to 1.8 as bill describes. If your renders from AE in ProRes seem to be shifting in FCP, there's likely a problem earlier in your workflow.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Josemarcos GananRe: Apple ProRes CODEC question. Is there an alternative for this scenario?
by on May 26, 2011 at 4:40:46 pm

I advise you not to use the codec of apple. The solution to the shift of gamma is not very simple, if it exists. There are many alternative HD codecs as good as prores or even better that run perfectly into the AE-FCP workflow, or changing FCP by Premiere Pro.

Poor english...


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Clay VernonRe: Apple ProRes CODEC question. Is there an alternative for this scenario?
by on May 26, 2011 at 4:52:05 pm

Josemarcos,

Which one of the these alternative HD codecs should I ask for? Why??

-Clay


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Dave LaRondeRe: Apple ProRes CODEC question. Is there an alternative for this scenario?
by on May 26, 2011 at 5:48:41 pm

[Clay Vernon] "Which one of the these alternative HD codecs should I ask for? Why?"

You've got me by the short hairs on that one! Let's summarize:
  • You'll be cutting ProRes 422 in FCP, and ProRes 422 is FCP's favorite codec.
  • You'll be doing AE work using the very same machine you run FCP, so you can even render in ProRes 422.
  • Walter Soyka gave you information about ProRes that you can take to the bank.

I can think of absolutely no reason to use an alternative codec.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Josemarcos GananRe: Apple ProRes CODEC question. Is there an alternative for this scenario?
by on May 27, 2011 at 3:52:56 pm

Well, you get lossless Animation Apple which have not the gamma problem, and, it depends on the machine that you use, you can try Targa or PNG sequence or even Uncompressed 8 or 10 bit. Everything match perfectly between both softwares. The DPX sequence is a high quality solution for edition in Premiere Pro and to compose it in AE, and the possibility exists of downloading software necessary to allow the editing in FCP with it. This is a suggestion, because I think that ProRes, being a codec of very good compression, it only is effective to the 100 percent within an exclusive Quicktime workflow. Just that.

Poor english...


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Walter SoykaRe: Apple ProRes CODEC question. Is there an alternative for this scenario?
by on May 27, 2011 at 4:06:18 pm

[Josemarcos Ganan] "This is a suggestion, because I think that ProRes, being a codec of very good compression, it only is effective to the 100 percent within an exclusive Quicktime workflow. Just that."

I'll agree that color management with QuickTime is a total disaster, but the color space misinterpretation and QuickTime gamma flag issues with AE and ProRes are solved in CS5.

Since Clay is talking about using FCP and AE CS5, I think that ProRes is the best choice given the workflow and quality requirements. FCP will not work in real time with QT Animation or TIFF/TGA sequences. DPX could work, but would require Glue Tools, and Uncompressed 8-bit or 10-bit is probably overkill that will unnecessarily increase his system requirements.

If the workflow expands to include other apps outside of FCP and AE CS5, then I'd absolutely agree that ProRes may not be the best choice.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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