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kimmiemate
aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 16, 2007 at 12:34:27 am

Has anyone here downconverted through firewire from a aj-hd 1400 to a Sony DSR-40? I can't seem to make it work and am wondering if it's even possible. What other DVCAM decks have people been using to make downconverted dubs via firewire?

Th


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Russell Lasson
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 16, 2007 at 12:38:14 am

[kimmiemate] "Has anyone here downconverted through firewire from a aj-hd 1400 to a Sony DSR-40? I can't seem to make it work and am wondering if it's even possible. What other DVCAM decks have people been using to make downconverted dubs via firewire? "

The Panasonic decks don't support downconverting over firewire. Firewire is like a data dump. It just exports the data on the tape in the native codec.

-Russ


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Chris Bierlein
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 16, 2007 at 2:50:09 am

This is incorrect. The Panasonic 1200 and 1400 decks do downconvert through the firewire, to either DV50 or DV. I use this to digitize DVCPRO HD into FCP in DV mode regularly with my 1200 deck. I also use this to record DVD "dailies" of HD material onto my DVD recorder with Firewire input. You need to be sure the menu settings on the 1400 are correct for downconversion. Under the DIF series of menus (800's I think), you can select which format to downconvert to.

Chris B.


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Russell Lasson
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 16, 2007 at 5:08:00 pm

Thanks for the correction. I've never heard of being able to do that.

-Russ


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kimmiemate
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 16, 2007 at 6:08:56 pm

I can downconvert to FCPro as well, but as soon as I hook up my deck I get E-92. Has anyone been able to downconvert to a deck via firewire without getting E-92? If so, what deck?
Kim


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DWVP Miami
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 16, 2007 at 9:25:20 pm

Kim,
Not to sound like a hump but I've found the Operating Instructions to be a valuable tool. I spent hours flipping through the menus and at last I downloaded the manual and the clouds parted and the birds sang and I was able to get where I needed to be without much trouble. I carry them in my van as well as keep one near my rack in the shop. The 1400 p/e manual is only 68 pages and it is so handy to have. Try this link. http://www.retrevo.com/s/Panasonic-AJ-HD1400P

best of luck

dw


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kimmiemate
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 16, 2007 at 11:52:24 pm

Thank you DW,

I have practically memorized that manual! First I had a loose firewire board, which had me trying every menu configuration before I ruled it a board problem. Secondly I discovered that you can downconvert via firewire to FCPro wQuite easily but it will not work in Avid express Pro. (at least not to DV, I have not tested DV50). Now I am trying to get it to dub to a DSR-40. At one point I had a strobing picture, audio and no TC, but now all I get is E-92. My question is - has anyone had it successfully downconverting to a DSR-40?

Kim


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evanmcintosh
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 19, 2007 at 2:18:31 am

I have a DSR-70 and there definitely is some magic for getting it to read the downconverted signal from the 1400. I haven't noted the exact settings, but in addition to all the obvious menu items on your 1400, try turning DIF SPEED to S100 and set a custom DIF OUT CH (and possibly DIF CONFIG). Within a few minutes I usually figure it out. When I have a second to figure them out again, I'll post the exact settings.

The DSR-70 is picky (won't read FW video from FCP or Avid), but the nice thing is that when the 1400's firewire downconvert is working it sends video, audio, and tc down the same pipe.

Evan
McIntosh Productions LLC
Atlanta, GA
HDX900 owner/operator


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kimmiemate
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 19, 2007 at 2:37:49 am

Thanks Evan!

I'd greatly appreciate it if you would post the exact settings when you get a chance.

Kim


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evanmcintosh
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 19, 2007 at 2:58:23 pm

Starting from factory defaults:

880 DIF SPEED S100
894 HD -> DIF OUT DV
883 DIF OUT CH 63

Evan McIntosh
McIntosh Productions LLC
Atlanta, GA
HDX900 owner/operator


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gryphon
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 20, 2007 at 12:07:50 am

RE: the AJHD 1400 deck; I'm trying to output some SD DVPRO50 timelines(Sequences) off
my FCP onto the 1400 deck; it appears that pansonic does not support recording of the
DVpro50 format now. Is this correct? Any solutions?

Thanks



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evanmcintosh
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 20, 2007 at 1:09:08 am

The 1400 records HD only, and only supports input of DVCPROHD over firewire. You could conceivably do a software upconversion to DVCPROHD (very marginal quality) or use a Kona 3 to upconvert and send HDSDI to the deck. No matter what you do, your tape will not be DVCPRO50--the deck can only play that format. If you need PRO50, rent a deck or make a self-contained quicktime and send on disk to a post house with a DVCPRO50 VTR.

Evan McIntosh
McIntosh Productions LLC
Atlanta, GA
HDX900 owner/operator


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gryphon
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 20, 2007 at 1:12:24 am

Thanks so much, that's very helpful info...appreciate you getting on this so fast.

Peter


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gryphon
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 20, 2007 at 1:17:42 am

One more question please; setting the system setting in this deck to 23/24 will allow 108024p
HDX900 tapes to be brought in as actual 24p, yes? What about 108030p- just system 59.94i setting?

thanks

Peter


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evanmcintosh
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 20, 2007 at 1:37:10 am

Yes, using the 23/24 setting on the deck will allow you to ingest 1080psf/23.98 HDSDI with a capture card (firewire will not work)--the HDX tapes can be standard pulldown or advanced. For 1080p30 use the standard 59/60 setting.

Evan McIntosh
McIntosh Productions LLC
Atlanta, GA
HDX900 owner/operator


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gryphon
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 20, 2007 at 1:44:22 am

Ok great...so capture card only for 24p. So 108030p can be done through firewire off the deck at 59.94 then? How about thru the camera- does that output a 108030p signal, as well? Does the camera output always do the downconvert on the 23.98 then? thanks peter


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evanmcintosh
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 20, 2007 at 2:19:23 am

Actually, you can capture to native 24p using firewire--assuming you are shooting 720p24 or 1080pA (advanced pulldown only--you cannot remove standard 1080 pulldown directly using firewire). Use 59/60 in the 1400 menus and select the appropriate capture preset in FCP.

For 1080p29.97 over firewire, just select the 1080p30 capture preset in FCP. The signal output by the camera or deck is really an interlaced stream, but that is inconsequential when dealing with 30p.

I don't understand your question about the camera downconverting 23.98.

Evan McIntosh
McIntosh Productions LLC
Atlanta, GA
HDX900 owner/operator


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gryphon
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 20, 2007 at 3:46:24 am

Excellent information- thanks so much; I've been doing most of my shows in 60i till now; or like the last show- we did 23.98, but converted it to 60i and finished in 1080i.
This one, they want 23.98; so this was not shot in 108024pa, just 108024p, so I'm not getting a kona card-based system which should be able to handle that. I just wondered if doing standard capture off my camera of a 108024p show, would actually give me a 23.98 show, or does it do a downconvert each time to a 1080i output? Also the firewire HD always comes in at 13mb/sec. off the camera; I assume, with the kona card, you can actually select the degree of compression, or no compression, via SDI inputs...
Best,

Peter


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evanmcintosh
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 20, 2007 at 1:09:14 pm

I'd say "downconvert" isn't the right word to describe what's happening...

Fundamentally, 1080p24 with the HDX (unlike an F900), images are always written to tape at 1080i29.97 with either a 2:3:2:3 (std) or 2:3:3:2 (advanced) pulldown. So in order to edit, you can either choose to stay with 29.97 and keep the inherint pulldown (do this for standard pulldown only) or extract only the original 23.98 frames and edit in a 23.98 timeline--which has some very nice benefits.

There are several methods to removing pulldown:
-remove advanced pulldown over firewire
-switch deck to 23.98 and load via Kona 23.98psf preset over HD-SDI
-use Kona card to remove standard pulldown on ingest over HD-SDI
-load material as 29.97 over firewire or HD-SDI and use Cinema Tools (Reverse Telecine) or After Effects to eliminate the pulldown. This is your only option with tapes already shot with standard pulldown and only a firewire connection. It's also a pain compared with other methods.

With the Kona, you can choose to capture/edit in the DVCPROHD codec, ProRes, or Uncompressed.

Evan McIntosh
McIntosh Productions LLC
Atlanta, GA
HDX900 owner/operator


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gary adcock
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 20, 2007 at 2:08:18 pm

[evanmcintosh] "-switch deck to 23.98 and load via Kona 23.98psf preset over HD-SDI -use Kona card to remove standard pulldown on ingest over HD-SDI "

Kona cards do not support removal of Pulldown from 1080 interlaced workflows..

sorry...

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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evanmcintosh
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 20, 2007 at 5:25:05 pm

Hmmm...having the Kona remove 1080 pulldown works for me, although it isn't a workflow I would want to use regularly. The key is to have properly calibrated deck control (for me it's -1 in VTR Exchange and FCP) and begin capture on A frames (00 or 05 multiples). This means some manual labor to make sure all in's land on a 00 or 05 frame and batch captures only. I have tested this in FCP and Kona VTR Exchange. I imagine it would also work for film telecined to 1080i29.97 (assuming A frames land in the right place), but I haven't tested it.

Just to be clear, using the 1400 VTR to convert material into 1080/23.98psf doesn't have these caveats.

Evan McIntosh
McIntosh Productions LLC
Atlanta, GA
HDX900 owner/operator


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sonu singh
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Jan 8, 2010 at 11:07:19 am

nice i appreciate for this aja kona does't do pulldown

macsonu


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gryphon
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 20, 2007 at 3:33:53 pm

This is crucial information...thanks again; this will definitely help me and the project out!
Best,

Peter


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gryphon
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 20, 2007 at 6:29:18 pm

Hi again...BTW have you ever encountered 5fps audio delay when loading from firewire- either off the camera or from 1400 deck? It's just on HD firewire transfers, DV ok. I thought perhaps it was just my G4 (I have 2mb ram, 2 buses for firewire)limitations. Would a full system with Kona card take care of this?

Peter


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evanmcintosh
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 20, 2007 at 8:31:54 pm

This is a well known issue. The audio sync with firewire seems to relate to system speed, i.e. a new Mac Pro will be much closer to being in sync than a G4. Captures on my Mac Pro are right on. Capturing HD-SDI with Kona on a current computer will also elminate this as an issue.

Also note that older Varicams lay sound to tape a couple frames off. There is a menu selection in the H model that fixes this.

Evan McIntosh
McIntosh Productions LLC
Atlanta, GA
HDX900 owner/operator


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gryphon
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 20, 2007 at 10:50:31 pm

You are the first person to tell me this...good to know.

Peter


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gryphon
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 24, 2007 at 6:08:40 pm

Do you or anyone out there know about Sony HV1U 24p process; I have one, and will be combining it on a timeline with my HDX900 108024p footage. I understand I need to strip out the 3:2 pull down to get true 23.98 timeline/sequence- on the HDx-900, using the Kona Card.
On the HV1u front- I'm using a Apple ProRes 422 codec format to load everything in- but it takes forever. say 2.5 hours for every hour of tape- to reprocess the image in true 24p.
Any ideas about how they might combine on the sequence- and then for final output to say, HDCAM 23.98 tape?

Thanks

Peter


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gryphon
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 27, 2007 at 5:21:35 am

Just one more question-

I have a project shot on two different HDx900; I'm able to load- thru firewire HD, the CAM A footage no problem- shot at 108024p - at 108060i- 3:2 pulldown intact for now.
Cam B- just stops in sec- with timecode break issues- never able to load. I've tried changing
the Drop Frame/non-drop incase that was an issue, but no luck. Any ideas why these 2 cameras would be so different- inputting into FCP- both shot at same 108024p setting...
I'm feeding the tapes shot on Cam B- thru Cam A input into computer.

thanks

peter


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evanmcintosh
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 27, 2007 at 5:50:04 am

What happens if you turn off device control (non-controllable device) in FCP? Are you able to load?

Also, watch the timecode when playing back the problem tape on the camera's side display and in the log and capture window. Do you notice anything abnormal?

Evan McIntosh
McIntosh Productions LLC
Atlanta, GA
HDX900 owner/operator


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gryphon
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 27, 2007 at 7:04:16 am

Nothing unusual about TC. In fact the HDX tape dubs across fine to mini DV- and plays back- which is the way I've been temporarily loading the system, to get a demo done. But what's weird about loading these tapes in (tried with non-controllable device selected to)- is when they do start running- it's like they're sped up and jumpy. So the audio's out of sync, but the video is sped up and jumping too. Tapes recorded in the same camera, and played back are fine- but these tapes recorded in the other camera not. I am still working on the G4 laptop until at least next week, when the 8 core mac comes in- with a proper system. Along with a deck rental, I'm hoping we'll be able to solve this. It's very strange...
Best,

Peter


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gryphon
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 28, 2007 at 5:48:41 am

Hi there, so getting to bottom of my files not loading, or when they do load, they're dropping frames. Now this is still loading off the HDX900 onto my G4 laptop. Could this just be a function of firewire being maxed out on this system? I have used it before with the full HDX files, no problem.

This is what file analyzing said about one of the files: any ideas about this? Thanks again!

Filename: Cam A tape ten10
Duration: 00:00:56:09
Average Data Rate: 11130k/sec
Audio Grouping: Multiple

Video Track 1 (602.9 MB)
Duration: 00:00:56:09
Frame Size: 1280 x 1080
Color Depth: 24-bit Color
Codec: DVCPRO HD (1080i60) at High Quality
Frame Rate: 29.97 fps
Average Data Rate: 10942k/sec (365k/frame)
This track appears to have dropped frames.
This track contains:
1107 frames of a duration of 1.0000 frame
95 frames of a duration of 2.0000 frames
85 frames of a duration of 3.0000 frames
24 frames of a duration of 5.0000 frames
4 frames of a duration of 4.0000 frames

Audio Track 1 (Mono, 4.0 MB)
Duration: 00:00:43:16
Average Data Rate: 94k/sec
Format: 16-bit, Mono
Sampling Rate: 48.000 khz

Audio Track 2 (Mono, 4.0 MB)
Duration: 00:00:43:16
Average Data Rate: 94k/sec
Format: 16-bit, Mono
Sampling Rate: 48.000 khz

Timecode Track Source TC
Timecode: 09:18:54:12
Reel: 010A



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gary adcock
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 28, 2007 at 1:57:03 pm

[gryphon] "Could this just be a function of firewire being maxed out on this system? "

are you telling us that you have are using FW drives along with the 1400 deck????

if you did not add a second FW bus via cardbus that is the VERY FIRST PLACE TO LOOK.




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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gryphon
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 28, 2007 at 5:32:40 pm

Well, I've returned the 1400 deck and am using HDX900 camera. But I do have a 2nd (plug-in) bus card,that I use...for firewire. it's plugged in, should be doing the job.




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evanmcintosh
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 29, 2007 at 5:15:54 am

Last time I tried loading DVCPROHD on a G4 laptop, even with Cardbus firewire card, I wasn't able to get it to work properly--sometimes it would be fine, sometimes it wasn't. I think you could do it at one point long ago (and 24fps was much more reliable than 60), but my guess is additional overhead of OS and FCP updates prevents it from working now.

One more thing to try is to flip the busses that camera and drives are on, or even attempt loading to the internal HD. I profiled FW disk performance via the additional firewire bus once on my former laptop (the last G4 Powerbook) and it was quite abysmal...

You octocore should make life much more pleasant.

Evan McIntosh
McIntosh Productions LLC
Atlanta, GA
HDX900 owner/operator


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gryphon
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 29, 2007 at 4:37:26 pm

That makes sense. thanks.


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Paul Provost
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 30, 2007 at 4:34:53 am

can you downconvert dvcpro hd to dvcam with 23.98 and 29.97 viz tc burn in?
i know this can be done with hdcam, but i just took a batch of tapes to the dub house and they say this is not possible.
I had asked this in earlier posts and replies said it could be done.



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evanmcintosh
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 30, 2007 at 6:00:16 am

The original code on DVCPROHD is 29.97, even if you're shooting 24p. So you can make a downconverted DVCAM with this original code (both window burn and on the LTC track) and all should be well for most workflows (although I think working with downconverts is an unnecessary pain in most cases).

There is a mode on the 1200 and 1400 VTRs that will allow them to output 1080/23.98psf and manufactured 23.98 TC. It will not output firewire; I'm not sure if it outputs SD-SDI in this mode.

So to answer your question...I don't think you can have a dub with both kinds of code, but do you really need it?

Evan McIntosh
McIntosh Productions LLC
Atlanta, GA


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gryphon
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 30, 2007 at 7:16:31 am

Not a bad idea...I've done downconversions before of course- but where I'm finishing a 23.98 show in 60i...seems impractical for 23.98 finish though. I'll be getting a Kona-card based system soon- so this issue won't be a problem any more...thanks


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gryphon
422 pro res, and audio
on Dec 15, 2007 at 6:28:48 am

Hi...just a couple of questions. I'm cutting a show we shot in 1080 30p; finished product is for theatrical display...off a hard drive. I'm planning on cutting sequence in 29.97; at least for now on the Apple pro res 422 codec- then full res eventually- do you know the difference between
the HQ 422 pro res and standard 422 pro res?

ps. do you ever have any problems accessing audio- off SDI-HD input- not coming up thru the Kona card, right now...

Thanks

Peter


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Joe MacQuarrie
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 17, 2009 at 1:23:21 pm

Hello,

Does Anyone know the exact combination of settings to get this to work in Avid? I've tried the ones suggested and just wondering if there's something I'm missing?

I'm frustrated and going to take a crack at this again today. I HAVE NOT been able to get a downconvert out of the dvcpro aj-hd1400 via firewire into Avid Media Composer 3.1.3 and I know I have done this once before!

SD 30i project.

I've got a tape that's 1080i/59.94.

Here's the variety of settings I've played with - but if anyone has done this please tell me what combination I should use - thanks. Does anyone have Definitive settings?

I remember one that was burned in my head from before:

menu:

880: DIF Speed - 0000- S100

*S400 is for HD but for downconvert it doesn't work - must be S100.

894: HD - DIF OUT - 002 - DV

I've tried all 3 combinations.

25: System Freq - 0000 - 59/60

020: System Format - 0000 - 1080i

022: PB Format - 0001 - Auto1

I've tried Auto1 and Manual - haven't tried Auto2?

023: Format Sel - 0003 - 411

This will output DVCPRO. I thought this was the selection I needed - BUT it's not working. I've tried DV and DVCAM as well. No video into Avid.

If I create an HD project - with all the default settings I can get video - so I know FW is working - but if I change my format tab to 30i, or create a new project and autoconfigure my deck any combinations above - still no video.

Thanks in advance!


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Joe MacQuarrie
Re: aj-hd 1400 downconvert
on Nov 17, 2009 at 5:20:17 pm

OK,

Finally got the Downconvert via Firewire to work - here are the magic settings combo:

Menu:

880 DIF SPEED - 0000 (S100)

892 DIF SIG CMD - 0002 (DV)

894 HD-> DIF OUT - 0002 (DV)

The Main Gotcha for me was Menu 892. I had changed it previously to DV - but it still wasn't outputting video.

Had to shut deck off - so avid lost communication - and boot deck back up again and Voila there's my video.

I had been choosing that setting before - but not always shutting deck off that did it.



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