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Fix jerky playback due to "remove duplicate frames and pulldown"

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todd reid
Fix jerky playback due to "remove duplicate frames and pulldown"
on Sep 29, 2008 at 4:13:36 pm

I didn't have it set correctly and therefore my footage looks jerky or strobed.
Re-transfer it you say????

Can't P2 cards already back to client and erased and used with other project.


Is there anything I can do?

Can Compressor, Motion (optical flow) or other program help?


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Shane Ross
Re: Fix jerky playback due to "remove duplicate frames and pulldown"
on Sep 29, 2008 at 5:57:41 pm

Sure, you returned the cards, but you didn't archive them? ALWAYS always ALWAYS copy the entire P2 card and archive that. ALWAYS. This is one prime example of why. Footage looks one, was imported improperly, or your media drive fails...SOL.

NOW..."looks" jerky. Are you viewing this on an external HD monitor? How about making your VIEWER or CANVAS 100% and see what it looks like? You do know that FCP lowers the resolution and does some funky things to the image in those windows to allow real time playback, right? Thus the need for the external monitor to know what you REALLY have.

Todd, you have been on these forums a while, I can't imagine why you didn't archive the original MXF files. Although I admit I did this myself early on...hard lesson to learn.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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todd reid
Re: Fix jerky playback due to "remove duplicate frames and pulldown"
on Sep 29, 2008 at 6:09:30 pm

I was hoping you'd respond, as you are the resident P2 authority.

Yeah, yeah, I know! I got lazy and failed to archive them.
It was a deal where, to save money, the crew shot a few projects ahead of time, and I transfered the offending footage a few weeks before I actually started to edit the project (it was only a small portion of the project - 2 shots)
I have learned my lesson, and will archive EVERYTHING from now on.
I do archive a lot of stuff, but not everything....why? I don't know!

Furthermore, I am monitoring thru an AJAHD and Panny LH1700, so I'm pretty sure the stuttering in real. It kind of looks like I have added a strobe effect.

Lesson learned!

So, no way to fix it, eh?


Also Shane-
can you remind me again, when to "remove" and when not to "remove"?
I thought you ALWAYS needed this checked (thus removing), however my smooth footage is NOT removed, and my jerky footage IS removed.

I'm working with DVCPROHD 720p60 source footage.
ProRes HQ timelimes.

I just noticed that the jerky footage was shot in 29.97 fps and the smooth was 59.94fps.
Footage from this client usually is not consistent, and that has never been a problem for me.






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Shane Ross
Re: Fix jerky playback due to "remove duplicate frames and pulldown"
on Sep 29, 2008 at 6:47:34 pm

Are you sure about formats that were shot? 59.94 is a 720p frame rate, and 29.97 is typically 1080i. I haven't shot 720p30 so I don't know if that comes in 29.97 or 59.94. 30PN might be 29.97. But I am guessing...so verify what you have.

Having that REMOVE PULLDOWN checked all the time can be dangerous...and I wish that FCP wouldn't default with it on. But it is pretty hidden. That will remove pulldown on 1080i 24PA footage...that is 29.97 but removes to 23.98. I don't think it affects the 720p stuff...I haven't shot all formats. I guess I should....HPX-170 on the way. It might remove pulldown on 30P or 30PN stuff to get it from 59.94 to 29.97.

So I guess I am not THE authority.

CLients shooting all sorts of formats? Do they know how bad that is? Mixing frame rates isn't....

Mixing frame rates....hmmmm. Have you tried the 29.97 stuff on a sequence of it's own? Might be stuttering because it is on a 59.94 sequence? Although it shouldn't. Just a thought.


Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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todd reid
Re: Fix jerky playback due to "remove duplicate frames and pulldown"
on Sep 29, 2008 at 6:57:17 pm

I got that info right out of the browser.
Just double checked and I was correct.

They are using the HVX200 camera, not sure if that makes any difference.
I may not have been clear, they don't shoot multiple formats, but the frame rate will show up as 29.97 or 59.94, and I can never be to sure which one it will be.

Also, as most editors will sympathize with....when multiple camera are used, they NEVER match. They have some photos that "get it" and some that don't. Thank goodnes for 3-way CC.
Trying to learn Color, but have a high class problem of too many projects right now.







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Shane Ross
Re: Fix jerky playback due to "remove duplicate frames and pulldown"
on Sep 29, 2008 at 7:02:57 pm

I knew you were talking HVX-200...or assumed that.

I'd ask them what format they shot. One setting might be 30p, the other might be 30pn. 30p runs at 59.94 and I assume (gotta test) that 30pn shoots 30 native frames, at 29.97. Like 24PN does 23.98. Because otherwise the footage runs at 59.94, the frame rate for the 720p codec.


Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Fix jerky playback due to "remove duplicate frames and pulldown"
on Sep 29, 2008 at 11:59:40 pm

[Shane Ross] "30p runs at 59.94 and I assume (gotta test) that 30pn shoots 30 native frames, at 29.97. Like 24PN does 23.98. Because otherwise the footage runs at 59.94, the frame rate for the 720p codec. "

Yes, this is correct. If they shot 30p and the other stuff is shot 60p, it's going to look different. If you put 30pN on a 60p timeline, the proper pulldown frames will get added for 60p playback. If your footage is 30p over 60, it's already 59.94, it's just 30p with 2:2 pulldown.

Jeremy


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Fix jerky playback due to "remove duplicate frames and pulldown"
on Sep 30, 2008 at 11:44:15 pm

We had this issue with two shoots. In both cases the "Remove Advanced Pulldown" was checked and it should NOT have been. In both cases they shot 720p60. By removing the pulldown, it effectively removed frames that we needed! We could only go back and re-batch import with the checkbox off. This gave us the silky smooth 60p we needed to slo mo a bunch of shots.

And on another recent shoot, we got clips that were shot 720p60 and were already converted with the Remove Pulldown checked, we were given a drive with just .mov clips, and the cards were erased. The shoot is now unusable.

Hate that default checkbox. Should not be hidden in a menu. It should be right there in the window.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media



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Christopher Wright
Re: Fix jerky playback due to "remove duplicate frames and pulldown"
on Oct 2, 2008 at 4:45:56 am

Ahh, once again why I love the Firestore, shooting in Quicktime mode and just dragging into a FCP bin to edit with immediately. I have never had to experience this problem, or the vagaries of hidden menus in the FCP log and transfer window...

Dual 2.5 G5, IO, Kona LH, IO, Medea Raid, UL4D, NVidia 6800, 4Gig RAM
Octocore 8 GB Ram, Radeon card, MBP, MXO
Windows XP Adobe Studio CS3, Vegas 8.0, Lightwave 9.2, Sound Forge 9, Acid Pro 6, Continuum 5, Boris Red 4, Combustion 2008, Sapphire Effects


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ryan maples
Re: Fix jerky playback due to "remove duplicate frames and pulldown"
on Feb 12, 2009 at 12:48:38 am

Hello, we have a similar issue. We wanted to shoot at 24 frames with a firestore, but think we may have shot 24 over 60. When imported the files look slow and stutter-y and the audio is out of sync. The weird thing is in the log and transfer window is plays fine, its just after ingest it is problematic.

The TC rate says 60. But the clips in the bin say 23.98.

Any solutions? (We do have the original footage back-up /archived) so we can re-import. (However we tried unchecking/checking remove duplicate frames and that failed to solve the issue).

We want it to playback in 23.98 as thats what we are editing it in.

Thanks



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