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HPX2000 vs HPX3000 AVC Intra

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simon morgan
HPX2000 vs HPX3000 AVC Intra
on Apr 23, 2008 at 3:19:55 pm

Doing a shoot that is going to be projected at a science centre theatre (50ft screen). Thinking about purchasing either the HPX3000 or HPX2000 w/avc intra (don't think I can wait until the new varicam comes out) and want to know if anyone has any info on the quality difference of the 2 cameras shooting AVC intra? Basically the 3000 is around $20,000 more, but I wanna know that there is a remarkable improvement in image quality between the 2 before I spend the money.

I am thinking though, that projecting on a big screen may make the difference between the 2 cameras easier to see.

Anyone had a chance to experience both yet?




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Russell Lasson
Re: HPX2000 vs HPX3000 AVC Intra
on Apr 23, 2008 at 5:05:54 pm

While I have not been able to compare footage from the cameras side by side, the HPX3000 is a true 1080P camera. While the HPX2000 can record in 1080P, it is deriving the information from smaller than 1080P CCDs.

Also, while the HPX3000 comes standard with AVCIntra support, you have to add it to the HPX2000.

What type of projector and playback system will be in the theater? If they're using SD DVD for playback, then it's not going to matter which camera you used. Do they have a digital cinema projector with a digital cinema server? Is the projector HD? Will they use blu-ray for playback?

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Kaleidoscope Pictures
Provo, UT


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simon morgan
Re: HPX2000 vs HPX3000 AVC Intra
on Apr 23, 2008 at 5:12:46 pm

we are able to suggest projection specs for them. I would like it to be seen in HD... Blu ray was amongst the suggestions on our list to them, and may be the best way to do it. Let's say it's going to be seen in HD, will there be a marked improvement in footage seen on a screen that size?

I own an HPX500 and have worked lots with the HPX2000 and HDX900 shooting DVCPRO HD only. This project is going to be in AVC Intra for sure, but I wondered if AVC Intra shot on the 2000 blows DVCPRO HD out of the water? Or do I have to go up to HPX3000 avc intra with it's 2.2 million pixels to get a fantastic image? I am going to be testing the 2000 with avc intra very soon, but 3000's are hard to get a hold of for a demo.



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Russell Lasson
Re: HPX2000 vs HPX3000 AVC Intra
on Apr 23, 2008 at 5:33:07 pm

It's hard to say until you've been able to talk with the people who are using the camera. I would call around to places that have experience with both to see. You could also try calling Panasonic and seeing if you can talk with the product manager to see if you can get some more insights.

Hopefully there is someone here reading this that can give more insight too.

For HD projection, the only things better than Blu-ray are playing right off of a edit system out to the projector or compressing it for a digital cinema server (JPEG2000).

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Kaleidoscope Pictures
Provo, UT


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Bo Skelmose
Re: HPX2000 vs HPX3000 AVC Intra
on Apr 23, 2008 at 6:17:13 pm

Hi
I also wonder what would create the best result when recording on my HPX 2100.
Would it be best to record 720-25P naitive (for more space on the P2 card)and afterwards upscale the recordings in the editing system - or to record 1080-25P DVCPRO HD letting the camera do the upscaling? Still I do not what HD system we will end up with in Europe but I guess it would be 1080-25P.
I think it is almost a standard today in nature documentaries...



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Russell Lasson
Re: HPX2000 vs HPX3000 AVC Intra
on Apr 23, 2008 at 7:08:28 pm

I think it would be better to let the camera upconvert it than the edit system. Unless you could use a Kona 3 or a Teranex to do the upconversion.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Kaleidoscope Pictures
Provo, UT


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harold ferguson
Re: HPX2000 vs HPX3000 AVC Intra
on Apr 23, 2008 at 7:42:57 pm

http://www.vimeo.com/926031
Footage shot with HPX2000 AVC Intra installed.
I have not seen footage from the HPX3000. I sure don't regret the $3000 upgrade for the Intra Board.
Sorry for some of the soft focus at times. Hey it was 7:00 am an only 1 cup of coffey and I left my marshall at the studio.

Let the Buffer build

Mule Ferguson



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: HPX2000 vs HPX3000 AVC Intra
on Apr 23, 2008 at 8:20:49 pm

We've done a shoot with the 2000 and experienced the 3000 in a hands on loaner.

The 3000 most definitely takes freeking awesome pictures with AVC-Intra and yes either the 2000 or 3000 blows dvcpro HD out of the water, well maybe not out of the water, but it definitely flips it's raft over. Is it $20,000 more freeking awesome? Well...maybe. Truly the 3000 is the top of line for Panasonic and it shows.

If I were you, I would not buy right now, rent. The varicam 2700 or 3700 is coming later this year, the 3700 having dual link support. The 2700 will be 720p and you will have all the variable frame rate functions @ AVCIntra, something you can't get out the 2000 or 3000.

And yes, figure out your projection situation and go from there. When it's a screen that big, shoot the highest quality you can afford.

Jeremy


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David Jones
Re: HPX2000 vs HPX3000 AVC Intra
on Apr 25, 2008 at 4:44:02 am

I agree with Jeremy; rent if you can, and when it comes to projection, bigger is always better. I come from a film background, and there's a reason all the new high-end "cine" cameras are made with a 35mm imaging chip: the final project will be projected on a really big screen. It's not just about how compressed your video will be, but how big your image is to begin with. The 3000 is the only Panasonic camera with imaging chips at true full-raster 1920X1080; go for it!


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simon morgan
Re: HPX2000 vs HPX3000 AVC Intra
on Apr 25, 2008 at 3:39:52 pm

I'll be giving the 3000 a good run out, but paying out all that money on renting when I may have over 50 days of shooting isn't really something I want to do. If the new varicam was out right now, I'd be going with that, but I think come July I'll have to make a decision on a purchase.

thanks for all the help.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: HPX2000 vs HPX3000 AVC Intra
on Apr 25, 2008 at 3:50:59 pm

If you buy the 3000, it's not like you will have a bad camera at all.

Purchase for what you need now. If I had a 50 day shoot coming up, I'd buy what I could as well.

Cheers.

Jeremy


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Helmut Kobler
Re: HPX2000 vs HPX3000 AVC Intra
on Apr 26, 2008 at 1:46:14 am

On the bright side, the difference between a 3000 and a 3700 Varicam isn't nearly as much as the difference between a 2000 and a 2700 Varicam. So you can feel better about buying a 3000 over a 3700.

The 2700 offers built-in AVC-Intra, Film Rec mode, variable frame rates 1-60, CAC, and a few other things that a stock 2000 lacks.

But the 3000 already has AVC-Intra by default, and Film Rec, CAC, etc. What you get with the 3700 is variable frame rates of 1-30 (this doesn't seem that useful to me anyway, since there's no slow motion), and a couple other tweaks, but nothing that really makes a big impact on the overall image, in my opinion.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: HPX2000 vs HPX3000 AVC Intra
on Apr 26, 2008 at 3:40:25 pm

[Helmut Kobler] "(this doesn't seem that useful to me anyway, since there's no slow motion"

unless you're shooting 24 then you will get a wee bit of overcrank.

Great points, Helmut. The 3700 will also offer dual link out.

Jeremy


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Mike Bannon
Re: HPX2000 vs HPX3000 AVC Intra
on Jun 30, 2008 at 4:57:08 am

I have a film background, I do TV commercials and animation. Shopped a lot of cameras at NAB Convention in April. Then had both HPX3000 and HPX2000 side by side for a day, ended up ordering one of each. They both look good, but by the time you factor in actual retail (not list price) and add the optional AVC-Intra card ( ~$3000) to the HPX2000 side of the equation, the price difference is more like $14,000 to $15,000. Not chump change, but you probably get what you pay for.

The Hpx3000 has an optical block that is twice as large as the HPX2000.

If you are blowing it up to 50', it may be worth the true full-raster 10 bit imagery of the HPX3000. I've never regretted erring on the side of overkill as one needs to take the possibility of future gigs into account.

A reputable Panasonic re-seller might provide you with footage from both cameras for comparison. Our re-seller was very helpful. Maybe you can put a shot or two through your whole work flow ending with the projection.

The AVC-Intra 100 codec imports into Final Cut with a (free) download from Panasonic, and the latest Avid release deals with it natively.


Mike Bannon



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