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Question for Jan about Competition

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Steve Freebairn
Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 20, 2006 at 2:08:00 pm

Jan, what are your thoughts on Silicon Imaging's new camera, and the red camera. A lot of people are saying that they will be varicam killers. I doubt that will be true, but how will these cameras change the market for the varicam? Are we going to see a more affordable varicam (the hvx200 rocks, but as you've said, it's not the same) or is the varicam going to blow them out of the water with quality and still remain in its current pricing bracket. I know you probably can't mention anything about future products, but basically what are your thoughts about some of the Sub 20K cameras that are promising varicam results.


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Chris Bell
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 20, 2006 at 2:46:57 pm

Steve,

I think it is important to remember that none of these new digital cine cameras exist yet... so I don't think Panasonic has much to fear. The Varicam will continue to be successful because it has a wide user/owner base. The format is accepted as a broadcast format, and Panasonic has a large service and support network. These factors are very important to the success of a product.

I am excited by the prospect of these new cameras (large chips, no prisms, less compression), but I don't think they will have much impact on the Varicam. It's use is too broad.

My 2 cents.


Chris Bell


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donatello
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 20, 2006 at 4:04:54 pm

"none of these new digital cine cameras exist yet"

perhaps you meant taking orders/for sale .. Silicon Imaging's new camera does exist and you can see it at NAB ( not a mock up) .. if you look at the spec's it exceeds the Varicam & others from chip (1920x1080) to recording ( 10 bit raw files vs 8 bit ) .. if panasonic/sony is moving away from tape then Silicon has accomplished that with recording to notebook USB size hard drives which are very resonabled priced compared to P2 cards ...

during/after NAB we'll see where the images line up next to the higher priced HD camera's ...

http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/comparison_chart.html

also the infinity HD camera will be at NAB for around 20K ..and there seems to be a few other camera's announced/released at NAB ...

true the RED at the moment does not exist ...

i really doubt that jan/panasonic has anything to say about other camera's until after NAB where they will be able to stroll over to other booths that have new camera's and see for themselves.

what is clear is that other then panasonic it's the smaller/little company that is offering NEW/inventive products and not the same ole video camera head with prism block recording to mpeg ..



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gary adcock
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 20, 2006 at 5:01:17 pm

[donatello] "Silicon Imaging's new camera does exist and you can see it at NAB ( not a mock up) .. if you look at the spec's it exceeds the Varicam & others from chip (1920x1080) to recording ( 10 bit raw files vs 8 bit )"
Existing and shipping are 2 different things, a whole bunch of people here on the Cow and CML said the HVX would never make it to market. Theoretical arguments over who's is bigger leaves out the fact that not everyone has need
for every bell and whistle. CMOS is still in it's infancy in the video world (the current versions of CMOS fail all of the NASA tests for recording quality and bit depth)

FYI -the Varicam can record in 10bit (12bit with the H model) in the proper setup.

[donatello] "what is clear is that other then panasonic it's the smaller/little company that is offering NEW/inventive products and not the same ole video camera head with prism block recording to mpeg "

I know of no Panasonic broadcast cameras that capture mpeg.

gary






Join us at the NAB FCPUG SUPERMEET
Wed April 26th @ the RIO for details go to http://www.lafcpug.org/nab_2006.html


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alex viarnes
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 20, 2006 at 6:01:42 pm

I think all the biggies (Panasonic, sony, JVC) are in for a battle in the next couple of years as cameras like SI and Red hit the market. They will change the playing field dramatically. The thing about the bigies is that they are BIG and have very deep resources; they will respond. Isn't it great ? we are going to be the beneficiaries of some real competition. I can't wait.
Aloha
-A




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Chris Bell
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 20, 2006 at 7:26:55 pm

Steve,

It's one thing to show a working mock-up at NAB, ( I held the Kinetta last year) the next step is much more difficult. These products will have no impact until they can actually manufacture and deliver. Red will not be delivering any time soon. To this date, only Panavision and Arriflex have working product (in this class) on the market. Professionals need proven formats, reliability, and support. Until these new players can meet these standards, their products will have no impact on the market. The Varicam has too wide a user base to see much impact.

I wish Panasonic would build a big chip Varicam, PL mount!

Chris, I still own a set of Zeiss PL primes, Bell


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alex viarnes
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 20, 2006 at 7:33:17 pm

That's just it ! they don't have to build one until they make as much money as possible on the varicam/cine alta products and are faced with competition. With the new crop of cameras coming..and believe me they are coming, they will have to build something to compete. the new cameras WILL change the landscape.
Aloha
-A




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dalen7
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 20, 2006 at 10:29:34 pm

Graeme,

The interview was the main point of the post...exciting, especially if the price is at the point mentioned.
(core teams are known to leak info...these guys both sounded pretty confident.) But...we will see soon enough...it could come in at some insanely high price, who knows for sure.

If they do break through at the price point mentioned (15k), then this is a true revolution in the video world, as RED is claiming, and I will hope to be a part of it.

Peace

dalen



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Graeme Nattress
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 20, 2006 at 11:00:08 pm

The price mentioned is not "the price". I can assure you that we have not leaked the price to anyone. I know I haven't!

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP


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dalen7
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 20, 2006 at 8:37:30 pm

Check out this interview with Red
http://www.podcast.net/show/184

They reveal quite a bit (along with a statement that it will be around 15k, now this was not the rep that said this, but they sounded like they had the scoop)

This camera will change the way the camera market is. Period.
Look at the specs, the price, and there really is not competition.
Its not another camera coming out trying to patch holes, etc., its actually giving you what you want (your dream camera).

Sound to good to be true? How will they make money?
More people can afford this first of all. Second, they will make it through updates (not camera...it stays good for as long as you need it per say), but firm ware, etc.

Take a liste to the interview.

Those that dont know about Red, the guy that owns Oakely sunglasse (billionaire) who loves to shoot digital video & photography, is behind this. (i believe he owns an 80k canon lens, he buys every camera practically to play with. So he is in the know about this type of thing to be able to create, or hire people to create, a camera that removes the frustrations that we usually have.

Gods Peace

dalen



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Graeme Nattress
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 20, 2006 at 8:52:01 pm

The price mentioned was mentioned by the presenters of the radio show and was neither confirmed nor denied by Ted. IMR do not have a "scoop" on the price for the RED camera. Nobody outside the core RED team knows the price, until we decide to announce that information. We have not, as I write, announced that information.

That said, you can read Jim's comments on the price, and where we see the camera in the marketplace, and come to your own conclusion, or wait until NAB....

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP


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gary adcock
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 21, 2006 at 12:07:27 am

[Graeme Nattress] "That said, you can read Jim's comments on the price, and where we see the camera in the marketplace, and come to your own conclusion, or wait until NAB...."


Or you can Join Ted and I as we talk on the future in a session called 2k and Beyond
Saturday at 2pm as part of the NAB Post Production track at NAB

http://nabshow.com/Conferences/sessiondetail.asp?id=1204474

gary




Join us at the NAB FCPUG SUPERMEET
Wed April 26th @ the RIO for details go to http://www.lafcpug.org/nab_2006.html


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Graeme Nattress
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 21, 2006 at 12:09:33 am

But there'll be no word on price until monday morning....

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP


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gary adcock
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 21, 2006 at 12:15:11 am

[Graeme Nattress] "But there'll be no word on price until monday morning...."



true and I also think that Scot was offering bait to see if ted would bite..

no chance

gary






Join us at the NAB FCPUG SUPERMEET
Wed April 26th @ the RIO for details go to http://www.lafcpug.org/nab_2006.html


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dalen7
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 21, 2006 at 8:58:59 am

I can respect that, I didnt know you were in the group of the know concerning price.

Well, cool camera, I guess if its to expensive, it was a nice dream while the dream lasted. :-)
(I mean on my part of wanting to get one.)

Peace

dalen





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Graeme Nattress
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 21, 2006 at 10:20:04 am

No worries.

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP


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Blub
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
by
on Apr 21, 2006 at 9:14:09 pm

First off, this person (Jan) is paid to talk about her products not any other companies products. Secondly this red thing is not real yet, how can anyone talk about an unreal product against a real product. The HVX200 was not real until they installed the final software and delivered the thing.

I am already bored to death regarding this red thing. Its like an ocean of PR splattered across us all. OF COURSE there is an iPod sales PR thing on this camera, what I want to know is where is the blog and the cell phone downloadable commercial?

If these guys are smart they will not make a camera that will go directly against the giants, just one that has the right compromises for the right nitch market. Judging from some items which seem to be facts about this non product they have not gone in that direction.

A PL mount means Zeiss lenses. If this camera is sold at a substantial discount to the top Sony and Panasonic HD cameras who is going to drop $13,000 for one Zeiss prime lens or $60,000 on a zoom? I guess everyone will have to rent. Last I looked you can


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alex viarnes
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 22, 2006 at 3:39:18 am

Lighten up Blub, I don't think anyone really expects jan to comment on this. I love my HVX but I see it as a temporary solution until the revolution really starts and it is about to. it may be another year or so until these cameras are shipping but I have no doubt that they or others will. Red just seem like the ultimate right now and that is why everyone is excited about it. The SI camera actually exist and will probably be shipping before the end of the year at around $20K. That is a revolution indeed ! I don't think red is going to be that inexpensive but I have no doubt that it will happen.Happy Friday !
Aloha
-A



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Graeme Nattress
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 22, 2006 at 1:16:05 pm

If you think that's a revolution, I can't wait to see your face monday morning :-)

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP


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Graeme Nattress
Re: Question for Jan about Competition
on Apr 22, 2006 at 1:14:54 pm

I'd wait to monday to hear more, but the camera is a more evolved state today than the HVX200 was last NAB.... We don't use balsa wood.

No need for Zeiss primes, but you can use them if you want to. We're redefining things, and hence the PR - to tell the world what we're up to.

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP


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