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Light through stained glass

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Rick Morton
Light through stained glass
on Jul 9, 2019 at 6:49:06 pm

I'm building a medieval room. I would like to add some windows with colored "glass" panes, then have a light shine through, into the room, with visible light, the color of the glass.
Any ideas would be appreciated.

Also.... another question: I created a spot up high, with visible light showing dust, coming down to the floor. Looks fine. When I copy the light to create another, the effect it gone. ????



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Jim Scott
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 9, 2019 at 11:27:22 pm

For the light through the stained glass windows, set the Visible Light parameter in the light's General settings to "Volumetric" and you should get visible shafts of light colorized by the glass.

I'm not sure what you mean by "effect it gone." When I copy a light the copy has all the same settings as the original. Could you provide more detail and possibly upload your project file?


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Rick Morton
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 10, 2019 at 2:37:00 pm

Thanks. I'll try that. I think I did, but the colored glass didn't seem to affect the light. How transparent should I make the glass?
For the other problem, I created a spotlight. Made it volumetric and added dust. When I render, I see the light beam coming to the floor with dust. I wanted three, so I just copied that light and pasted twice. The volumetric and dust do not show up on the pasted lights, even tho' they show in the parameters.



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Jim Scott
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 10, 2019 at 3:11:05 pm

Reduce the "Absorption Distance" in the Transparency settings of your glass material.



I don't know what issue is at play concerning your duplicated lights. When I copy and paste lights, or Command+drag to duplicate them, the copies all match the original both in their settings and in the render. Could you post a simple example project showing the issue?


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Rick Morton
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 10, 2019 at 3:16:55 pm

OK. I'll give that a try. Not sure how to post a project.



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Jim Scott
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 10, 2019 at 3:26:02 pm

To post a project just drag the file into the reply window.


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Rick Morton
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 11, 2019 at 1:11:35 pm

Thanks, Jim. Now I'm having trouble just getting the volumetric light to show up . I'm trying to have a few colored spots hitting the floor, with a slight "dust" look. I put spots in the scene. I see it hitting the floor as a blue area. I set to Volumetric. I get no visible light in the render. I created a new project and put a light in and it works fine. I do have one light in this project that is working fine. I'm stumped.



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Jim Scott
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 11, 2019 at 1:33:04 pm

If you are getting inconsistent results -- some lights working and others not -- I have no idea what is happening. Have you rebooted your computer and then gotten the same results?

What happens if you copy all of the elements into a new project? And what renderer are you using (standard, physical...)? Again, it would be helpful if you could post the project file and I could see if I get normal behavior on my system.

Good luck.


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Rick Morton
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 11, 2019 at 2:39:46 pm

I copied the lights and pasted into a blank project and the volumetric work. Why would that be? Everything else seems to work fine in the project. Using physical render with nothing changed other than ambient added. I went back to an old version of this project and put two lights in and they work fine. I had saved this project under a new name so I could delete all the lights and start from scratch in the new version. Now only the one light is showing volumetric and dust, the other lights won't. Here's the project. I dumped some stuff out to make it a bit simpler but still don't see the lights. I'm trying to get two or three colored areas to hit the floor, as if coming through colored glass somewhere.
Thanks.
13518_sampleroom.c4d.zip



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Jim Scott
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 11, 2019 at 4:35:20 pm

I see what you are reporting. When I copy the first three lights in your scene and paste them into a new one they work fine, but don't in your original scene. Why? I don't know. When I get a chance to play around with it more I'll see if I can find something, but nothing jumps out at me at first overview.


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Brian Jones
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 11, 2019 at 4:49:18 pm

files do (rarely but it happens) go corrupt in a fashion that copy/pasting the contents to a new file will fix the problem you'd have to ask support about more details.


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Rick Morton
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 11, 2019 at 4:56:35 pm

Thanks. I've added new lights and they seem to be working. One thing I noticed is the light intensity has to be up if you move it farther from the floor. When I did that, the volumetric shows. Interesting.
I'm quite proud of myself for figuring out a way to make the fire without actually MAKING 3d flames, which I can't do and would certainly affect rendering the animation. Just a fire movie in a material placed on a tube that surrounds the column. I was really happy about making that look decent! ☺ Thanks for your help.



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Jim Scott
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 11, 2019 at 5:13:31 pm
Last Edited By Jim Scott on Jul 11, 2019 at 6:21:05 pm

I see what the issue is now. Your lights are outside the walls and ceiling. You need to move them inside or create windows.



Edit: or you could work with the Light Object > Project > Exclude or Include lists.


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Jim Scott
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 11, 2019 at 10:06:07 pm

With your original lights set to exclude the walls and ceiling everything works fine. (Textures were disabled for faster rendering)



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Rick Morton
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 13, 2019 at 10:18:34 pm

Hi, again, Jim. I figured I'd just come straight to you.
I'm trying to render a short animation of just a piece of that scene. A close up of the burning light, looking down at the throne. 1920 x 1080. Standard Renderer. No GI. So far it's been 7 hours and it's rendered 33 frames. Any idea why this is taking so long? There are no dusted lights in the frame. Just some stone and metal materials. As you know, the fire is a QT movie. Help! I have a deadline for another job coming up and I'm afraid this render won't be done to give me back the computer. What did i do wrong?

screenshot2019-07-13at3.12.38pm.png



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Rick Morton
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 13, 2019 at 10:21:05 pm

One more thing. I created just a rectangle object and using boules, cut out two text lines. Required two boules. I want this rectangle piece of metal to "drop" onto the chair. So I made the chair a collider and the rectangle group static. When I run the dynamics, the rectangle goes right through the chair. ???



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Jim Scott
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 13, 2019 at 11:28:49 pm
Last Edited By Jim Scott on Jul 13, 2019 at 11:40:51 pm

Are you applying the dynamics tag to the boole or to the rectangle object that is being cut out? If you apply it to the boole you should get proper dynamics. If you can't get it working please show me a screenshot of your objects list.

Edit: In re-reading your post I noticed that you used two booles. Rather than doing that put the two text objects into a null and use that as your cut out in one boole. And I think you meant to say that the rectangle was a rigid body, not static.



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Rick Morton
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 14, 2019 at 5:15:00 am

Yes. The first thing I tried was putting the two text objects in to a group and adding that to the Boole. That didn't seem to work.
That render, by the way is still going. 74 frames. 14 hours. You have that project, by the way. The render is looking down from the upper fire light towards the throne. Slight camera move to the left. Taking forever.



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Jim Scott
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 14, 2019 at 2:09:49 pm

Concerning your boole problem, without at least a screenshot of your Objects list I would only be guessing at what issue you are having. If you could provide one, or just a simple project file of that rectangle and text set-up, it would be much easier to diagnose your issue.

In regards to the long render, while I may have your original project, several materials are missing including the fire movie. And as I said, I am not a rendering expert so I'm not the best one to ask for advice. There are others on this forum with more experience in diagnosing rendering issues, which is why I suggested starting a new post. That being said, I did run several test renders of one frame and found that my old Mac Pro (a 2012 model with the fastest processors available at that time and 64 GB of ram) was considerably slower than your computer. After approximately matching the camera angle of your sample image I got a single frame render time of over 27 minutes, so I guess you should be happy with your results. 😉

In just watching the render progress it was obvious that the "Metal - Iron Cast" material was the slowest to render. Removing the Bump channel cut the render time nearly in half but caused a noticeable difference in the look of the texture. Removing AO reduced the time by about 10%. I replaced your material with a procedural material from Greyscalegorilla's Texture Kit Pro ("Rusty Procedural") and got a render time of just over 5 minutes for a single frame. (see image below - dbl. click on it to get an image which can be enlarged for better viewing) With this brief analysis my best suggestion would be to replace the "Metal - Iron Cast" material. Hopefully someone else will have some other suggestions, and again they will be most likely to see your question if you start a new post. And as you are probably aware, hiring a render farm is also a possibility for projects such as yours with excessively long render times.



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Rick Morton
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 14, 2019 at 4:30:03 pm

Wow... thanks. That's very helpful. I'll change that texture to something else. I'm just not experienced enough to realize that would make the difference. The piece finally finished sometime last night. 23 hours and 18 minutes. I have to start a new angle this morning, and a longer take, so I'm definitely going to try to fix this issue.
I'll test the Boole thing later and let you know. Thanks again.



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Brian Jones
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 14, 2019 at 8:04:10 pm

I'm late to this thread but some notes on render speed.
Trying to match the shot you posted as Jim did, and as noted without some of the correct imagery, I'm seeing per frame render times of:
- Physical renderer, Adaptive Sampling Quality Medium - 7:30
- Physical renderer, Adaptive Sampling Quality Medium AO off - 6:45
- Physical renderer, Adaptive Sampling Quality Low (AO on) - 1:52

- Standard renderer AO on 35 seconds
- Standard renderer AO off 31 seconds

Can you drop to low quality sampling? I'm just rendering a single frame from a perspective that neither of the cameras in the scene file go to (but that does sort of match the fire in the cage shot you posted) and I don't see any obvious difference between the Med 7:30 image and the Low 1:52 image.
And can you use the Standard renderer? Physical is the best choice not always. It depends on the features you are using. The differences I see in that limited render example are the bump on the stone wall is a little more crisp in the Standard render and the reflection (specular really) on the iron cage is slightly enhanced in the standard renderer.
And finally AO. From that perspective AO is making a big visual difference with the pillars and the steps but you have it on scene-wide and it doesn't do anything visible to the metal-cage thing but it's being calculated everywhere, setting AO into the materials via the Diffusion channel could save some time (a bit but not as much as the renderer choices/settings).


Threadripper 1950X 16 core


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Jim Scott
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 14, 2019 at 11:14:38 pm

Thanks for the input Brian. You obviously have a much faster computer than I do.


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Brian Jones
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 15, 2019 at 12:14:55 am
Last Edited By Brian Jones on Jul 15, 2019 at 3:40:36 am

Yeah I had an early 2008 Mac Pro (and had Macs for 21 years - Amiga before that) and while I was looking at upgrading for a long time it didn’t look right to do the Mac Pro 6,1 ( trash can) I waited for a time while considering a hackintosh (a buddy at work built one) but there is enough trouble with those I decided to build a PC, the Intel’s are kind of pricey and the Ryzens came out... given the pricing of the modular I’m glad I jumped since I can’t write off the price as part of a business. Short story long I guess...


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Jim Scott
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 15, 2019 at 5:16:52 am

Wow, what a coincidence... my first computer was an Amiga too. And I also had a 2008 Mac Pro until I bought the 2012 three years ago. I felt the same way about the "trash cans," which is why I decided to go with a refurbished and fully loaded 2012. As a hobbyist I try to get as much use out of each one as I can. I'm certainly not going to be buying a new Mac Pro, so who knows what I'll end up with next.


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Jim Scott
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 13, 2019 at 11:26:11 pm

Without having the actual project in hand to test, including all materials, this is a tough question. 7 hours for 33 frames certainly does sound excessive. I am no rendering expert, so I would suggest starting a new post, and include a screenshot of your render settings and perhaps a project file with a short section of the animation. That way more people will see your question and hopefully be able to help. In the meantime, have you tried removing all textures and then adding them back in one by one to see if you can find a culprit? Perhaps start with the QT movie texture.

Good luck.


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Rick Morton
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 17, 2019 at 8:18:31 pm

Jim... do you know why I'm getting a flickering on the stone texture as I push in towards the wall and the throne? The client noticed it. I can't figure it out. It's just a standard stone texture from the presets. Thanks. Can't seem to upload the mov file. Keep getting errors.



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Jim Scott
Re: Light through stained glass
on Jul 17, 2019 at 8:47:25 pm

I see you started a new post concerning this, so I'll let Brian (the real expert) help you out.


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