MAXON CINEMA 4D: Cinema 4D Forum Adobe After Effects Forum

Reflections dissapeared

COW Forums : Maxon Cinema 4D

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Eric Oosterhof
Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 2:57:58 am

I was wondering if someone can help me?

When I try to render an object with reflection material it comes out like this:


I never had this problem before and I've red any article there is about this subject. Maybe I've changed a setting?

Thanks in advance.


Return to posts index

Brian Jones
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 4:03:22 am

can you post that file?


Return to posts index

Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 12:40:37 pm

It's nothing fancy, just a ball and a sphere. The c4d file: https://ufile.io/8yahs


Return to posts index


Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 12:47:41 pm

It's nothing fancy, just a floor and a sphere.

https://ufile.io/8yahs


Return to posts index

Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 1:42:00 pm

I have also tried 3 different version of Cinema 4d which is giving me the same problem.


Return to posts index

Brian Jones
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 2:05:18 pm

Which versions? Just curious, this file is from R11 and is using just simple reflection not reflectance yet (at least until R20...).
You have a perfectly reflective texture on the only two objects in the scene and everything else is pure black so there is nothing to reflect except each other but they have identical materials (the same material). I do see the reflection of the sphere in the floor but the floor on the sphere is really hard to see (I assume it's the fresnel). Try removing the fresnel and what do you get? I get blackness because now all a perfect reflection of all that blackness around the two objects, you could:
- make the light visible or
- you could reduce the strength of the reflection a bit or
- use Layer Fresnel (if it exists yet in R11, I don't remember)
- add other objects in the scene for the sphere and floor to reflect besides each other (that hopefully don't have the same perfectly reflective surface)
-etc.


Return to posts index


Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 2:31:05 pm

I am using r11 r13 and r19 all of them gave me the same render output. Example image1. I have used fresnel like this before. This is how it looks when I copy the sphere.



Does it look the same when your render it like this or the example above? To me it almost seems like a system issue when you say its reflecting the texture perfectly.

Thanks for the answers so far!


Return to posts index

Steve Bentley
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 4:44:38 pm

I'm in R19 and I don't get what you get when you duplicate the ball. I don't get the arc you have at the bottom of the sphere (in yours its where the red arrows are in mine).
If you watch the GI work itself out you can see all the reflections rather harshly and that's the best way to make sure they are all there - they can get pretty subtle once the GI is finished cooking.
The difference could be that the camera angle changed - I just slid mine over to accomodate the other ball, but I think you have gone higher so that might make another bounce off the ball in the floor (and then back to the ball) show up.

You can also change how many bounces you get in the render settings.

I'm not seeing an issue in R19. but I'm pretty sure back in R11 the reflection tab on the material didn't have the stackable specular and reflections option that we have now, and that makes reflections much more real and much more controllable. There was also an issue circa R13 where if you didn't let the objects reflection bounce enough times, the final (small) reflection of the other ball would be black in the first ball. That was fixed in R14 I think.





Return to posts index

Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 5:34:19 pm

Thanks for your response!

That arc is part of the reflection not working. The render you're showing doesn't reflect neither - I'm missing the shiny part.
Here is something i made before i had this issue, so you can see what im after (I used softboxes for this).



Return to posts index


Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 5:36:01 pm

Btw. Is it possible to edits posts on this website?


Return to posts index

Steve Bentley
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 5:42:50 pm

Yes, just hit reply to your post, then go up and you will see an edit button at the bottom of the list of all the posts in the thread.

Re missing reflections.
That shiny glossiness you are seeing is the reflection of the soft box. There is nothing to reflect in the ball scene you sent. Just the floor and balls.
You can force a reflection even without geometry by using the environment channel in the materials. You can put an image of the scene you want reflected in there and it will do the job right quick, but won't reflect other objects in the scene.
The other option is to surround your scene with a giant sphere that is not visible to camera and map a scene on that. Its similar to the environment tab but does a better job because its a true reflection of the environment and the objects in the scene.
And you can mix the two techniques when you want to bend the rules of physics.



Return to posts index

Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 6:53:31 pm
Last Edited By Eric Oosterhof on Aug 12, 2018 at 6:59:18 pm

I have a feeling it has nothing to do with anything you guys are talking about. I do understand what you're talking about.
Here's is another C4D file: https://ufile.io/4rjjt
It should render a grey shiny reflecting sphere. That's how it worked before (even with physical and Global illumination on).
Now it's like this in r19:


Return to posts index


Brian Jones
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 7:25:27 pm

that's because you have the Brightness of the Layer Color in the Beckman down to 15% - Crank that backup to 100% and you see a reflective surface. In 19 Reflectance, reflection is controlled by Global Reflection Brightness, Reflection Strength, Brightness (in the Layer Color) and Layer Fresnel (more?)


Return to posts index

Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 7:37:41 pm
Last Edited By Eric Oosterhof on Aug 12, 2018 at 7:38:27 pm

Here I used Global Reflection Brightness 50% Reflection strength 50% - 100% Brightness.
I still don't get that 'carpaint' look.



Return to posts index

Brian Jones
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 6:58:05 pm

yes, there should be a link left of where the Reply button is or it's up top if your post alone, not in threaded mode


Return to posts index


Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 7:00:41 pm
Last Edited By Eric Oosterhof on Aug 12, 2018 at 7:01:56 pm

Thanks, I found out about the edit already though.


Return to posts index

Steve Bentley
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 7:29:07 pm

Hey Brian, I think the edit button is different between browsers. I only see mine when in collapsed thread mode and after I've hit reply to one of my posts. (I can't actually run in collapsed thread mode), I normally see the expanded thread with all entries visible and readable, but when I hit replay I can finally see just the titles stacked in the thread and the edit button.
Win 7 Pro Firefox



Return to posts index

Steve Bentley
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 7:32:35 pm

Oh, and Eric, you can just drag your file in to the reply text box and that will upload it to the Cow. Its a little easier for us to download that way.



Return to posts index


Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 7:45:31 pm

Ok, thanks!


Return to posts index

Brian Jones
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 7:29:24 pm

I get the same thing with the setup but this is what I get when I dump the Fresnel Shader in the Layer Color (which is what is killing reflections that are pointing at the camera) and use a Layer Fresnel set to Conductive/Mercury (check out the others too)



Return to posts index

Steve Bentley
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 7:38:58 pm

In the reflection tab of the material in my R19, I can see its a Beckmann but I think that might be C4D interpreting from and earlier rev. I see no reflections. But if I turn that reflection off and add a new Beckmann, everything works fine.



Return to posts index


Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 8:03:57 pm

I deleted version 11 and 13 and just created this file in a re-installed r19.


Return to posts index

Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 7:57:08 pm

But it's still not even close to this:


I created this the same way i created the other files with fresnel.


Return to posts index

Steve Bentley
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 8:00:25 pm

Can you upload that file and maybe we can spot the difference?



Return to posts index

Steve Bentley
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 8:01:30 pm

I've got a rev of R14 still on the system so I can look at it in that.



Return to posts index

Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 12, 2018 at 8:15:17 pm

It's a different version, which is still working how it should: 12631_blackeggs.zip


Return to posts index

Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 15, 2018 at 7:58:19 pm

I really hope someone is able to figure this out. I'm stuck, but I keep searching myself. 😖


Return to posts index

Steve Bentley
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 15, 2018 at 8:24:24 pm

Hey Eric, I had to do the same thing again with the eggs. I had to delete or turn off the existing reflection which I assume has been converted from a legacy version, and replace it with a Beckmann and then everything works fine.

To be fair it doesn't look like your image (there's no golden tone but that may be another matter). But I can see the cyc reflected, the eggs in each other and the cyc in the reflection of the reflected eggs.

It looks like the legacy Fresnel is using a mix mode of Multiply - that's an odd choice for a reflection and may be why its not very bright. Here's the file.

12647_blackeggsupdate.c4d.zip



Return to posts index

Steve Bentley
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 15, 2018 at 8:32:51 pm

Actually if you just keep the legacy reflection and change the mix mode to normal or add, that does the trick too



Return to posts index

Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 15, 2018 at 8:59:11 pm

I have a render of your updated version, but i must say it is like it is ignoring the glossy part (its half matte half glossy) + in some area's it really look funky (in hi-res details).



I appreciate your response!


Return to posts index

Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 18, 2018 at 9:52:24 pm
Last Edited By Eric Oosterhof on Aug 18, 2018 at 10:01:21 pm

Maybe someone else can help me out with this problem?
It seems like a render problem to me.

Any fanatics in the house?


Return to posts index

Steve Bentley
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 18, 2018 at 11:04:07 pm

Well first, this isn't the same file as the golden eggs - there are lots of different and missing elements. So there is no way its going be identical. Oh ya and its coming from a version 4 revs ago - before the entire reflection engine was rewritten.

I also don't know the render set up for that file - how many bounces? render engine? reflection fall off? gloss coat?

You can get there with either R14 or R18, its all in how you apply the reflections and the objects being reflected.

I'll bet the difference is in the Fresnel application.



Return to posts index

Eric Oosterhof
Re: Reflections dissapeared
on Aug 23, 2018 at 10:46:27 pm

I know it isn't the same file and I have tried what you said.
I pretty much used the same settings even fresnel, only different softboxes.

Even when I use presets in r19 I dont get the result I need. I've checked my videocard (AMD radeon 5800 HD), installed the new drivers.
Still nothing It's also not the fresnel.

This is the best I can get. What am I doing wrong?

File: 12668_spheres.zip



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2019 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]