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cloth object rendered at higher frame rate for slower motion: possible?

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Steve Bentley
cloth object rendered at higher frame rate for slower motion: possible?
on Jul 20, 2018 at 5:57:32 pm

I've got this lovely little cloth object being taken by the wind (think: Forrest Gump's feather).
The motion is perfect, position is perfect. But I want it to run slower. Normally for this we just crank up the frame rate for rendering, output, and then just interpret the footage back to the base frame rate to get a slower motion.
But with or without caching the cloth, the render outputs the cloth in the same number of frames, no matter the frame rate set. Is there a trick?
If I half all my forces etc to slow the whole thing down, the cloth ends up in a different spot, and we've spent quite some time "directing" it to get it just right.
Actors!!



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Brian Jones
Re: cloth object rendered at higher frame rate for slower motion: possible?
on Jul 20, 2018 at 7:40:43 pm

are those Preview Renders?


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Steve Bentley
Re: cloth object rendered at higher frame rate for slower motion: possible?
on Jul 20, 2018 at 7:42:21 pm

No, full blown renders. Just using the standard renderer for now.



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Brian Jones
Re: cloth object rendered at higher frame rate for slower motion: possible?
on Jul 20, 2018 at 8:51:51 pm

I just did some tests (dropping a cloth on the sphere stuff) and if I have Project Settings FPS 30 and render settings 30 the cloth hits fully dropped at 30-ish frames and with the render FPS at 60 it's still 30 frames (as you are seeing) but if I do a Preview Render and set FPS there to 60 it's now 60 frames to full drop...


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Steve Bentley
Re: cloth object rendered at higher frame rate for slower motion: possible?
on Jul 20, 2018 at 9:47:06 pm

Thanks Brian, That might get me there. (but, sigh, no alpha, oh well, I'll break out the full luma shader on a second go round and bipack it).
Its a big frame and as I write this I'm waiting for the preview to do something.. anything.
Odd that the frame rate doesn't effect a proper render for cloth as it usually does. Even odder that a mesh deformer algoryhthm would work and extrapolate in the preview and not in the full render.



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Emir Bojorquez
Re: cloth object rendered at higher frame rate for slower motion: possible?
on Jul 20, 2018 at 11:07:57 pm

Probably this could helps you.

With point cache tag, you could slow down the cloth


12567_clothexample.c4d.zip

Good Luck

Imagination is the best tool...



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Steve Bentley
Re: cloth object rendered at higher frame rate for slower motion: possible?
on Jul 20, 2018 at 11:17:08 pm

Good idea Emir, thanks. I didn't know if the point cache would work in relation to the wind as that's what's moving the cloth around. I'll give it a twirl.



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Steve Bentley
Re: cloth object rendered at higher frame rate for slower motion: possible?
on Jul 20, 2018 at 11:15:43 pm

Well... that rendered in preview, but the picture viewer couldn't load the render. So I don't know if it worked or not.
I think it might be a size limitation (5760x1080) and length (200frames). I tried a bouncing ball and rendered to preview and it failed as well at that size. ( I don't actually use preview much as I find other methods are faster and you get to see what's going on during the render, so I didn't know what to expect at a larger size.)
Actually I think it might be AVI limitation (the only uncompressed format available in preview) as it won't load into AE either and WMP won't touch it.



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Brian Jones
Re: cloth object rendered at higher frame rate for slower motion: possible?
on Jul 20, 2018 at 11:22:24 pm

Length isn’t a problem but resolution probably is


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Brian Jones
Re: cloth object rendered at higher frame rate for slower motion: possible?
on Jul 20, 2018 at 11:20:03 pm

It’s got to be worth a support submission since the behavior should be the same


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Steve Bentley
Re: cloth object rendered at higher frame rate for slower motion: possible?
on Jul 21, 2018 at 12:09:58 am
Last Edited By Steve Bentley on Jul 21, 2018 at 12:30:03 am

That worked great, thanks Emir! With the cloth tag having it's own cache I didn't get to thinking about a secondary cache that had a speed component.

For others who run into this:
Apply your cloth tag (or other dynamics engine) and get your motion how you like it, but at a normal speed. Then apply the point cache tag, hit "Store State" in the point cache tag attributes, then turn on Enable, and then hit Calculate. This will take whatever the cloth tag is doing for the length of the animation and push that point level animation into the memory of the point cache tag.
Now turn off "Enable" in your cloth tag (Basic tab), and set the scale level of the point cache tag to a percentage of the original "speed". Hit play. Instant slowmo of your original cloth dynamics.
If you leave the cloth tag enabled, it takes precedent and you won't see any speed change.

If you need to tweak. Empty the point cache tag's memory (hit empty cache), enable your cloth tag again and adjust its forces etc, then repeat the process above. You don't have to change the Scale level of the point cache tag while you do this - it's only going to operate on the speed of the cloth tag when it's memory is filled by the Calculate button; and the calculation always happens at 100% of the original animations speed no matter what the Scale level is set to. That percentage only shows up on play back.

Oh, and you can also edit the Scale value in the point cache to do some time-ramping without any missing or duplicate frames.
This is a little tricky though - when you animate this number you have to think of it not as speed but as a percentage of the number of "keyframes" of animation in cache.
If you set the Scale value to 50%, and keyframe that about halfway through the animation, the whole animation will run half as fast. But then, 20 frames later if you set another keyframe on the point cache's Scale value to 25%, thinking the animation will slow down even more, it will in fact go backwards to where the animation was 25% complete. So after that first keyframe is set, it becomes a little more like Enable Time Remapping in AE. "What percentage of the animation do I want to appear on this frame."



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Brian Jones
Re: cloth object rendered at higher frame rate for slower motion: possible?
on Jul 21, 2018 at 12:35:30 am

Thanks for the description Steve


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