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Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.

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Tangier Clarke
Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 15, 2019 at 7:43:00 pm

Folks, I am recreating a slot-machine style scroll effect which is pretty simple. I lineup the images I used in a column and essentially adjust the y position of the group those images are in; adjusting the speed accordingly.

My question is, is there a clever way of doing this without repeating the images as their own layers. This seems like something Motion would be good at/able to do, but I am not certain.

Right now if I want 3 images to seemingly repeat as I am scrolling up or down, I have to repeat those three images for as long as i want the scroll top happen per the speed of the scroll.

Granted I understand this depends on the size of the images too, but I am curious if there's a more efficient way for Motion to cycle these images so it's looping the motion applied to the group, giving the illusion that it's working like a slot machine, rather than me having to repeat the 3 images 5 or more times to accommodate the y value change.

Hope this makes sense. Not sure if I am articulating it well enough.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 15, 2019 at 8:49:27 pm

Why would you need to repeat the images? All you should need to do is set up your animation so it loops back to the start of the group of three surely?

Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 15, 2019 at 8:55:11 pm

Hello Simon. Perhaps it's just something I haven't figured out how to do yet. Just after I wrote the original post it just occurred to me that rather than clone my group of three images 5 or any number of times, I can just replicate the group in a line any number of times. I would still have to scroll the replicator group with the Y value.

How you go about looping the group playback in the way you're describing?

Thanks.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 15, 2019 at 9:03:54 pm

Here you go:

13269_slotmachine.motn.zip

Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 15, 2019 at 9:14:09 pm

Thanks Simon. I am looking at every group and layer, but can't figure out where and how you are looping this. I see it happening in Group 2 animation keyframes (the repetitions), but don't see anything in the inspector for any group or layer that eludes to repetition - no behaviors or timing adjustments anywhere.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 15, 2019 at 9:29:35 pm

Apologies. I thought this was something you'd already know.

You can loop any animation by going to the Keyframe Editor, choosing the animated parameter you want to loop and from the dropdown selecting After Last Keyframe/Repeat. (There are other options as well, as you will see.)



If you then want to convert that loop into an editable animation, you can select After Last Keyframe/Generate Keyframes - set the number of Cycles you want from the dialogue and hit OK.

So in your case if you want the rolling to come to a stop after a set number of loops you can do this and then adjust the last keyframe to bring it to a gentle stop.

Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 15, 2019 at 9:35:53 pm
Last Edited By Tangier Clarke on Apr 16, 2019 at 5:34:42 am

Ahh, no I didn't know that. I did go into the keyframe editor and start checking out your keyframes, but didn't go all the way to the sub menu where "repeat" is. Though the repeat process is automated. Is it possible to ease this automated process so that the slot machine stops? It's simple doing this with changing the Y value of a group, but using this method it's not clear how I would have the repetitions slow down from 2 seconds forward.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 16, 2019 at 10:04:45 am

I gave you the instructions for the slowdown above, but here is a sample project which shows you the result:

13272_slotmachineslowdown.motn.zip

The steps are:

1) Set up your single animation adjusting the speed as required.
2) Use the Keyframe Editor to set up a loop after the last keyframe
3) Use Generate Keyframes to convert the loop into an editable animation choosing the number of cycles you require
4) Again set After Last Keyframe but this time select Constant (to create a hold)
5) Adjust the timing of the last keyframe to create a slowdown.
6) Adjust the animation curve of the last keyframe to ramp the animation to a gentle stop, using either Ease In, or Bezier for more precise control



If you want to land on a different image than the one you have used for the start/end, simply park on the last keyframe and drag it vertically upwards in the keyframe editor till you see the image you want. Holding down shift while dragging constrains the movement.

There are of course other ways of achieving this effect but I suspect this is the most efficient overall.

Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 16, 2019 at 11:45:17 am
Last Edited By Simon Ubsdell on Apr 16, 2019 at 12:54:59 pm

Here for example is a very different method that uses Clones and a Replicator to create the array, a Sequence Replicator for the animation, and a Clone of the result that uses Variable Speed Time Remapping to create the slowdown.

This would probably the route to go if you were building a reusable template, but it's quite a bit more complicated to explain and requires quite a few more steps to execute.

13273_slotmachinereplicator.motn.zip







Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 16, 2019 at 4:56:00 pm
Last Edited By Tangier Clarke on Apr 16, 2019 at 4:58:33 pm

Thanks a lot Simon. I was playing with those parameters before your post, but some things weren't making sense to me. After your instructions I got the hang of it now and I understand what my confusion with Motion here is:

The "After Last Keyframe" option is fluid. That last keyframe changes depending on what was set in Generate Keyframes. I was looking at the last keyframe as always being the one I set manually and therefore anything I would do with repetitions or generating keyframes starts from there.

I still have a little problem with this. Generating keyframes does not acknowledge the first time that was set. So if I set the animation to repeat using 3 repetitions with the generate keyframes option, then I want to adjust that number of repetitions, that doesn't work. That last keyframe is now the keyframe after the 3 repetitions already set and the option to generate keyframes starts at 1 again - meaning it will generate more repetitions from the last keyframe. It's additive rather than cumulative from where the first animation was made.

I don't think the way it's setup in Motion is intuitive, but I know it's just a matter of working with it more. Perhaps ideally I'd have the type of before/after last keyframe operation and generating keyframes in one pop up window along with what interpolation to do at the last keyframe. The latter not completely necessary being that one could just right-click the last keyframe and make the adjustment.

Thanks again though. I've learned something new that makes me more efficient and that's most important.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 16, 2019 at 5:01:46 pm
Last Edited By Simon Ubsdell on Apr 16, 2019 at 5:01:55 pm

[Tangier Clarke] "I still have a little problem with this. Generating keyframes does not acknowledge the first time that was set. So if I set the animation to repeat using 3 repetitions with the generate keyframes option, then I want to adjust that number of repetitions, that doesn't work. That last keyframe is now the keyframe after the 3 repetitions already set and the option to generate keyframes starts at 1 again - meaning it will generate more repetitions from the last keyframe. It's additive rather than cumulative from where the first animation was made."

Simply delete the generated keyframes and run the process again with more cycles as required - it only takes a couple of seconds!

Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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Andy Neil
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 16, 2019 at 6:33:03 pm

This is a fascinating thread. But the whole time I was thinking that if I was doing it, I'd use a 3D replicator and build the images in a wheel like the old analog slot machines worked. Then you have a set number of images that spin around and can use parameter behaviors to animate the replicator. Admittedly, the loop animation idea is probably easier.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 16, 2019 at 6:42:25 pm

Yes, there are several ways of executing this concept - none of them quite ideal in terms of ease of set up and adjustment, I think.

I did a Replicator version here (see my post above):

13274_slotmachinereplicator.motn.zip

Not 3D (I just used a 2D line replicator) but it could just as well be and would of course look nicer.

I'm not sure how you could get it to work with behaviors only (as against some keyframing) but I haven't given it that much thought. What was your theory on how that would work?

Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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Tangier Clarke
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 16, 2019 at 7:40:30 pm

Perhaps it would be like having the oscillating behavior, but with the ability to set x, y, or z values (in this case just Y) and having the ability for that behavior to not traverse backwards the values that started the behavior; essentially an option to repeat the half range point. Granted this isn't truly oscillating I know.

Maybe another way would be the current loop behavior to be more robust in that one would be able to set position parameters, number of repeats, last frame, etc. That seems more plausible. I don't see how to do this with the current behaviors, not even the parameter behavior. Not that it can't be done, I just don't see it.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 16, 2019 at 8:30:47 pm

But all that said, keyframing this process is very, very easy. It's just something that you need to take a few minutes to learn to do properly.

Of course, there could be enhancements to the behaviors that would make it easier, but I don't see that kind of development coming any time soon from Apple. Motion is really not their focus and hasn't been for a very long time now.

So you either make do with the limitations that exist or you use another application ... where it might not actually be any easier.

Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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Andy Neil
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 17, 2019 at 5:46:53 am

[Simon Ubsdell] "I'm not sure how you could get it to work with behaviors only (as against some keyframing) but I haven't given it that much thought. What was your theory on how that would work?
"


Not so much a theory as I used to always try animating with behaviors first because I thought the simulations were nicer than what I could do with keyframing.

I'm not sure what I'd try, but it'd probably be spinning the replicator on it's axis with a combination of the Ramp and overshoot behaviors.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 17, 2019 at 8:30:23 am

Here's a test of how that would work. I couldn't figure out anything useful with Overshoot, or at least nothing that looked like actual slot machine behaviour. but Ramp with 100% Curvature sort of does the trick for the slowdown. You don't really have as much control as if you keyframed it though.

And to me the "realism" of actually making a 3D "drum" looks aesthetically messier than if you faked it in 2D. But that's a personal thing. It all comes down to taste in the end ... and what you personally find most efficient and quickest.

13276_slotmachinereplicatorcircle.zip.zip







Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Looking for alternate slot machine-style scroll method.
on Apr 17, 2019 at 12:54:53 pm
Last Edited By Simon Ubsdell on Apr 17, 2019 at 5:59:11 pm

This version uses an Overshoot behavior to control the Retiming Value, which is something that I would never have thought of trying - so thanks, Andy for the hint.

It's not a 3D drum effect, but rather a looping 2D replicator which is simpler to set up and, if you wanted a lot of slots, would avoid a performance slowdown.









Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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