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Layering of 3D Groups

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Justin MrkvaLayering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 5:47:25 am

I have a little conundrum with a Motion project in 3D. I have a color solid as a "floor" for reflections and then a front overlay with a few effects. The overlay and the floor are BOTH in 3D space and don't move with the camera, they both need to be in perspective.

The problem is, the overlay and the floor intersect, i.e. the bottom of the overlay is cut off where it passes through the floor.

Here's what it looks like:



As you can see, the floor is reflecting the element and cutting it off. I want to have the element show perspective properly and remain in the same position, but also have it not cut off by the floor.

Strangely, I have another layer with a text logo, and the instant that text logo layer becomes active, the overlay is no longer cut off. This may be a bug, though. I don't see why that would change anything.

Ideas?


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Jason WatsonRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 7:01:26 am

You mentioned you had some effects on some of layers. If you disable them does it do what you want? It's possible that the effects aren't playing nicely with the floor.


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Justin MrkvaRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 5:52:27 pm

Nope, it does it even with just a simple generator. I've uploaded a file to 5223_testreflectionstage.motn.zip that shows a minimal example. I want the checkerboard layer to cover the whole screen, not get cut off by the floor. Watch when the text starts to fade in, if it works like it does on mine, it'll fill the screen at that moment. You'll see what I mean.

I would wait to bring in the stage layer until the text comes in, but I have some other effects I want to have going during that time, and there may be times that isn't possible so I'd like to figure it out without going that route.


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Jason WatsonRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 6:14:31 pm

I'm pretty sure the reason it's doing this is because you have the blend mode set to 'Add' for the checkerboard layer. When it fills the whole screen it is more or less accidental, since having the text layer below it screws around with the positioning (at least in how it is viewed) and the blending. (If you move the text layer above it, it will cut off the whole time.)

You can easily trick it into doing what you want, however. Start the text layer at the beginning, but keyframe the opacity to 0. Set another 0 opacity one frame before the mask starts, and then set to 100 on the next. It will probably achieve what you are going for.


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Justin MrkvaRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 6:22:13 pm

Actually, moving the text layer above it doesn't change anything, and neither does the blend mode...

The zero opacity trick works perfectly, though. Now it makes me wonder... what if I had an add blend mode layer that I wanted to have cut off on the floor with a reflection, and then I had another layer that caused the reflection/cutoff to stop working? Hmm... something to investigate further.

Regardless, thanks for the tip. :)


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Jason WatsonRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 7:47:09 pm

Sorry, I meant moving the text layer as in moving the group it was in. Since it's being masked by that rectangle, moving just the text layer wouldn't make a difference, beyond losing the mask. (And wouldn't get you what you wanted anyway.) The blend mode would also have to be set to normal for both the object and its group, since you have a floor.

Sorry for my lack of clarity.

I'm glad, however, that the opacity trick worked.

Another (probably easier) way would be to move that rectangle into the final_logo group and extend the rectangle all the way to the beginning.

The easiest way, which I played around with a little more to find out, is to use the Add blending to your advantage by having the checkerboard group set to Add, rather than the just object itself.


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Justin MrkvaRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 15, 2013 at 4:55:11 pm

As mentioned in this thread, I managed to solve this for good; you can set a 3D Group to use Layer Order. That ensures the overlay appears properly and doesn't get cut off by the floor. :)


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Don SmithRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 12:08:54 pm

I'm not sure of what you are trying to do, but thinking out loud, you might get the effect you want by having the floor in a 2D group. Try right-clicking on the floor and grouping it by itself and make sure that group is 2D and not 3D.

NewsVideo.com


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Justin MrkvaRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 5:53:49 pm

2D group doesn't work. See my other post in this thread here for more information, I uploaded a file with an example as well.


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AJ RobinsonRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 2:54:07 pm

Hey how did you get that sweet effect in Motion?

~AJ


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Justin MrkvaRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 5:59:23 pm

You mean the lighting? It's a plugin called mFlare. Highly recommended, it's plenty fast even on my 9400M GPU. It's similar to something like Knoll Light Factory, and it works with FCPX and Motion 5, where KLF doesn't as far as I know.


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AJ RobinsonRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 6:33:23 pm

Haha Ok I have mFlare! I LOVE mFlare! I got it half off :) because of black friday. I didn't see that flare! Is it a preset or did you have to make it?

~AJ


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Justin MrkvaRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 7:05:35 pm

It's L_Iris_Horizon, I just made a tiny tweak to the hoop element to keep it moving when the flare goes offscreen (it looked funny when it stopped midway through the animation).

And yeah, mFlare is awesome. I used the After Effects lens flare since way back in CS2 or something, and when I got Motion I was a bit disappointed in the dismal "lens flare" element. But because of that I was forced to look for something else, and even AE's flare is pitiful compared to mFlare. :)


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AJ RobinsonRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 7:14:13 pm

Yep! Motion's built in flare was also pretty horrible :-)
Thanks!

~AJ


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Don SmithRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 7:29:09 pm

It's not the text, its the image mask and the rectangle in its source well that is flashing the background to full screen. I see you're using the image mask to provide the gradient wipe to the text which seems to be the hard way to do it. Uncheck the visibility of he Image Mask and select the text and apply Behaviors > Text Basic > Fade Characters Left In. In the inspector, manipulate the Spread to get the same effect you had with the Image Mask.

NewsVideo.com


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Justin MrkvaRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 8:03:47 pm

I would use a text behavior, but in the final version we have a PSD logo file that'll be replacing the actual text, as well as a replicator and some other effects. I'd be interested if there's a way to do a gradient wipe some other way that's compatible with full groups, but this works pretty well.


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Don SmithRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 8:34:30 pm

Just use a plain old rectangle mask, very feathered (it'll go more than 100) and animate the mask across the image. I just tested it.

NewsVideo.com


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Don SmithRe: Layering of 3D Groups
by on Jan 14, 2013 at 8:37:09 pm

Here's my test...



NewsVideo.com


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