The new Mac Pro....now made in China!
I wonder if somewhere inside the case we will find a little sticker that says "Made in China"
Too bad...it kind of tarnishes the whole thing, and it won't make Trump happy!
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Apple could easily make this in the US. This isn’t about President Trump’s happiness.
It’s about jobs in the US. Shame on Apple.
Greg Ball, President
Ball Media Innovations, Inc.
ooh - are we going to turn a forum on Creative Cow into a political forum ?
Well I certainly have my opinion on this subject. This is typical liberal "holier than thou" nonsense.
Tim Cook, who is gay, and is a staunch promoter of people's privacy, (so think very liberal) does everything he can to be just like Dick Cheney. He is worth 625 Million dollars
and sets up illegal offices in Ireland to avoid US taxes, that could help the homeless, and veterans -
and now of course, has decided that rather than keep people employed in the state of Texas to manufacture the
new Mac Pro, he decided that to keep profits up, to make it in China (by Quanta computer)
and of course, the new Mac Pro is so outrageously priced (while the slave labor in China will live in substandard conditions) - but hey - he is one of the wonderful shiny faces of liberal America. So while people starve in the streets of California, he will get richer and richer from the massive markups to him, while avoiding taxes in Ireland, and manufacturing with slave labor in China.
Sounds just great to me ! Screw those people in Texas. He needs a new jet (and a new Mac Pro !).
Rescue 1, Inc.
Well, if you do a modicum of research, you can find Tim Cook addressing this directly.
Turns out PART of why China is eating the US's lunch in manufacturing is that their government has INVESTED in making them hyper-competitive in the leading edge skills that will support 21st century manufacturing.
Here's Tim on the topic directly. Starts at about 1:00
So maybe the better question is why the US governing parties have pressed business policies that have made us so much less than competitive with other global suppliers of not just the machines, but the TALENT to run them.
Wait, heck, how bout we just re-train some displaced factory workers in Ohio, or maybe some West Virginia Coal miners and let THEM do the fabrication work? SURELY with a little low-cost community college re-training - those miners can do micro-electronics fabrication equally well, don't you think?
You BECOME what you invest time and money to become.
And the US had just spent another 2 years investing almost NOTHING forward- looking and innovative. After 8 years under Obama where ANY initiative that involved spending anything got Mitch McConnell'ed into virtual oblivion.
The Modern American way ONLY allows debating the value of pouring billions of dollars into concrete and steel border lining fabrication in order to MAGA.
But HEY, pouring billions and billions of dollars into building reinforced concrete bunkers for US forces in IRAQ made a boatload of no-bid political connected defense contractors super-wealthy - and I'm POSITIVE that it can do the same for five or six well connected construction firms in the US.
So there's that.
Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.
I have been thinking for the last several days, weather I should waste my time responding to this post.
But you know me - I love a good fight.
This is Flex, LTD.
They build (built) the 2013 Mac Pro -
here is a picture of one of their factories in Austin Texas -
They are an international manufacturer, with plants that build electronic assemblies all over the world -
look - here is their map
And I assure you, that there are plenty of other companies in the United States (that could employ American citizens) that could do the same thing. And they are not "re trained" coal miners
So just like any politician (like the ones that are given billions of dollars in tax dollars, and the homeless crisis continues to grow out of control in places like California, Seattle, and Portland) - the politician (Mr. Cook in this instance) puts their spin onto this.
This story is similar in our industry to Behringer. Behringer makes "cheap audio crap" - but their products are just fine, and I have installed them countless times, instead of the more expensive brands - because people wanted to spend less money. Well, this turned out to be the case for a large portion of the audio industry in the planet, and now Behringer, which relocated to China, instead of manufacturing in Europe, now makes Midas audio boards, Klark Teknik, Bugera and Turbosound, as well as their own brand of products. Their plant, which is over 1 million square feet is in Zhongshan in China, and according to their Wiki site, they produce over 50,000 audio mixers a month.
A big difference here is that Behringer equipment is dirt cheap. Even products that used to be very expensive, like Midas audio mixers, are now relatively very inexpensive. I am sure that all those "stupid Europeans" who invented all these great products can manage to find some people to make these products in Europe, but as well all know, its SO much cheaper to make it in China - and this way Uli Behringer gets richer and richer.
So please don't tell me that there are no qualified manufacturing facilities in the United States - there are certainly plenty of them, and even if they are small, they can be developed.
I mean, even Toyota from Japan, manages to use that "stupid American labor" in their manufacturing plants in
Mississippi, Kentucky, San Antonio, Indiana, Alabama, and West Virginia. And I think they sell a lot more
Toyota automobiles than they will EVERY sell professional Mac Pro's. So don't you really think that Apple could figure out how to get Flex, Ltd. to build the new Mac Pro's ? I mean, it's just assembly (wave soldering) - they are not making the chip sets, the AMD graphics cards, the power supplies, the CPU's. Those are all third party companies, so Apple is just ASSEMBLING in China. They could be assembling with Flex in Texas.
There is only ONE problem - the profit margin on those $12,000 - $20,000 Mac Pro's would be much smaller, as you would have to pay those damn lazy American workers, who expect a minimum wage, weekends off, and health benefits. WELL SCREW THEM ? Right ? Mr. Cook needs a new private jet this year.
Rescue 1, Inc.
Hate to break it to you Bill and Bob... but you both can be right as the topic is pretty multifaceted. 😉
For example, Flex got f'ed by delays related to a bespoke screw used in the Mac Pro.
I remember a number of years ago when Corning announced it was building a Gorilla Glass factory in China (Corning's first overseas) and said the reason wasn't wage related, but convenience. Their glass factory would literally be located a few blocks away from the factories cutting the glass into phone screens and the other factories assembling the final phones. Logistically it made more sense to have a factory in China vs building another one in the US and shipping the large glass panes by sea to China.
It's not that the US doesn't have engineers or doesn't have factories, it's that the ecosystem for robust, competitive manufacturing in the US has waned while it has risen in China. And unfortunately the solution isn't as simple as more STEM grads or more factories because, like any ecosystem, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. To Bill's point, America, as a country, has de-prioritized blue collar work over the years and this is a repercussion of that. When I was in high school they cancelled our vocational ed classes because, to paraphrase the administration at the time, "our students don't go to trade schools".
Some thoughts on Tim Cook, he was instrumental in streamlining Apple's manufacturing pipeline when he came to Apple in the late 90's (which undoubtedly saved Apple a TON of money), but he's was also on the forefront of pushing Apple towards green energy at a time when it was much more expensive compared to fossil fuels. Also, Apple is more philanthropic under Cook than under Jobs (at least publicly). Cook certainly runs Apple as a business and not a charity, but I don't think he's a 'bottom line above all else' type of guy either.
It's all about money, and that's pretty much it.
Sad as it is to admit, people are horribly selfish... me included.
We deal with this all the time with advertisers (especially automotive), who want to make sure their advertising includes the fact that they've been around for 50 years, that they are family owned, that they treat their employees right, and all that jazz... because they think that's what will win customers. It doesn't (at least not to 99 people out of 100). It's about price. The fact is that a person who claims to really want to patronize good 'ol family owned Wilson Family Luxury Motors will still go across the street it if saves them $300 on that $60K BMW. That's just the way people are, we see it time and again.
People are quick to say "Apple should make products here." But imagine this... lets say Apple made iPhones in China AND in the US. And you go into the store and you are offered two identical iPhones to choose from. One is $800. Made in China. Its twin was made in the US. Oh, and it's $5000. Which one would you choose?
Would you really buy the one that costs six times as much, because it's putting Americans to work?
Even if the American iPhone was only a hundred bucks more, it's nice to think there are those people out there who would make that choice... but you'd be hard pressed to find someone who really would cough up the dough if the cheaper identical option is just as readily available.
You'll hear people say all the time "I'd gladly pay a little more to if...." but when the rubber meets the road, it's all lip service. I started my company doing price/product grocery store ads (those horrible "Scott Towels, now two for $1.29" spots). Me, being both a guy and not a savvy shopper always wondered why those were so effective (I personally never ever look at even one price in a grocery store... if I need it I buy it, if I don't then I don't). But learning the ins and outs of that business I was surprised to find there are plenty of shoppers who actually will drive all the way across town to save a nickle on a jar of pickles. And that's not an exaggeration.
It's a terribly jaded thing to say, but it's true. People are selfish and it's all about money. Period.
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
you don't need to convince me that "the lowest price wins". But with that said - when Apple is going to charge 20 grand for what any PC competitor can make for half that price - well, it's Apple looking to "price gouge" their loyal client base. If they made the Mac Pro in the US, and sold it for the price they are currently listing, they would still make a ton of money.
Rescue 1, Inc.
Can you really make a PC equivalent for half price Bob? I looked at custom Linux systems with similar GPU and ram and there was maybe $3-4K in it at absolute best?
Co-owner at Pollen Studio
Rescue 1, Inc.
Ok well they don’t sell to the UK so scratch that option.
If I stick with dell or HP whats the price difference like?
Co-owner at Pollen Studio
[Bob Zelin] "Apple looking to "price gouge" "
Of course they are. What more would you expect?
That's simply the way big business operates, and I would expect nothing less of Apple nor do I really find any fault with it, from a business standpoint. From a humanity standpoint, yes, but not from a business standpoint.
Look, I'm not an Apple fan, by any stretch. I own zero Apple products. That last time I even touched an Apple product was years ago helping a friend load a Mac when moving. I don't really have anything against them, they are just not what I choose to use (probably somewhat out of spite, because for so many years in our business the Apple fanboys were so militantly condescending about it). I silently shook my head eight years ago when Steve Jobs died, when people were falling all over themselves (including some folks in this forum, as I recall) slathering on the platitudes to him for his hand in creating the world as we know it like some Biblical-era prophet there for our worship. I kept quiet, even though I wanted to say "Yes the man was an incredible incredible visionary and has helped change the world. And he was also a raging narcissist with an insatiable ego who from virtually all accounts was one of the more horrible horrid human beings that you'd ever run across." But I digress.
You can't really fault Apple for selling their products for the most that people are willing to pay for them, or for setting a price point that maximizes company sales/profits. They are not a charity and never claimed to exist to help the world be a better place (fortunately Bill and Melinda do have a bit of that feeling). Tim Cook could get up at the next meeting and announce that all future Apple products will be half price, that Apple would still make money although not nearly as much as before, but they will be helping so many people get access to their products and live better lives and all that jazz....
The shareholder revolt would start before Cook even finished his sentence.
That's just the way business is... and goes back to my "people are selfish" rant from before. Which, sadly, they are.
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
Todd, you remind me of myself.
Years ago, I was a very enthusiastic user of D/Vision Pro, the predecessor to Discreet edit*, which ran on Windows.
I had a dilemma: because a big client was using Apple's Final Cut Pro, I had to as well.
I complained to my good friend David Roth Weiss about what I perceived as the excessively hip atmosphere at the Apple Store, the clubbiness of it all, the "in-group" feeling which made me feel out of the loop. I wanted no part of it.
But David helped me make the leap into the Apple universe. He said (more articulately than I am remembering now), "Sure, I get it about the smugness. But go ahead, buy a Mac, and then YOU will be part of the in-group."
Bought my first Mac in (wait for it...) 1984. The next year had the board modified into a "Fat Mac." Then SE, the Mac (whatever the one with slots was called). Shortly thereafter the fist Avid system was released, based on a Mac, so little choice there, at least initially. Jump ahead through a dozen or more Mac iterations flowing through my business and I'm quite used to paying a premium price for a box, OS and peripherals that I understand. AND here's the key: earn a pretty decent living with.
Sure most things today can be done on a PC but in the early days user surveys showed that the average PC user had their machine for 1 to 3 apps, period. (I remember a client referring to one computer as their "Lotus" computer while a "Word Perfect" computer was a couple of desks away.) At the same time the average Mac user utilized 7 to 8 apps. (And I'm not even going to begin to count the number of apps, plug-ins, etc. running on our current systems.) So I'm stuck, but I'm happy and productive.
Now here's what I HATE: The Apple store operates in such a way that you have to make an APPOINTMENT and WAIT to buy anything -- even a $25 iPhone case. What's of more concern is how the branded cell phone stores are adopting the same business model. Not surprising how eCommerce is turning into such a better experience for those of us who know what we want to BUY.