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Another Copyright question....sheeesh

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Greg Ball
Another Copyright question....sheeesh
on Jun 6, 2018 at 8:04:03 pm

So I'm working on a video for a client. They want me to use a clip they found on YouTube. This is a fight I often have, as i refuse to use video footage without the copyright owner's permission.

I believe I need to stick to my guns. What are your thoughts?

My client has said the following:

I just spoke to our President about the youtube video we supplied to you. He wants to use the clip that’s readily available to anyone who uses YouTube. We are not selling the video and instead using it for training. There is no mention of copyright in the video and if necessary he is willing to sign an indemnification releasing Ball Media for any liability.

I appreciate your support in this regard.

Greg Ball, President
Ball Media Innovations, Inc.
https://www.ballmediainnovations.com


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Wayne Keyser
Re: Another Copyright question....sheeesh
on Jun 6, 2018 at 8:43:21 pm

If you expand the details ("show more") on the youtube page containing the clip, the last line is "License - Standard YouTube License" (or whatever else the license details may be). Find out what the uploader has specified, and maybe even contact the uploader for permission.

=============

There is no "way to peace." Peace is the way.


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Todd Terry
Re: Another Copyright question....sheeesh
on Jun 6, 2018 at 9:16:09 pm

[Greg Ball] "if necessary he is willing to sign an indemnification releasing Ball Media for any liability.
"


That doesn't fly.

One person cannot give permission to another to break the law. If that were true, there would be a lot more hitmen out there.

If I am stopped by a cop for speeding, I can't tell him, "It's ok, this isn't my car, I borrowed Greg's. Here's his note that says it's ok for me to speed. If you have to write a ticket, he says send it to him."

Don't do it.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Greg Ball
Re: Another Copyright question....sheeesh
on Jun 7, 2018 at 2:27:50 am

Thanks so much. Todd that's an excellent response!

Thanks Wayne too!

Greg Ball, President
Ball Media Innovations, Inc.
https://www.ballmediainnovations.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Another Copyright question....sheeesh
on Jun 7, 2018 at 3:27:02 am

Don't give in, and feel free to mention the following (or something similar) to the client.

[Greg Ball] "He wants to use the clip that’s readily available to anyone who uses YouTube. "

Books are readily available at the Library but that doesn't mean one can plagiarize them.


[Greg Ball] "We are not selling the video and instead using it for training."

Unless you have explicit permission to use it from the rightful copyright owner you don't have permission to use it.*


[Greg Ball] "There is no mention of copyright in the video..."

Copyright is inherent once a work has been created. Registering it, putting a copyright notice on it, etc., are just ways for the owner to help protect/defend their copyright if it ever comes into dispute.


*Fair Use exceptions are so limited and case specific that unless you want to get lawyers involved just work under the premise that you can't use it without explicit permission from the rightful copyright holder.


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Mark Landman
Re: Another Copyright question....sheeesh
on Jun 7, 2018 at 12:56:08 pm

"if necessary he is willing to sign an indemnification releasing Ball Media for any liability."

My attorney said that's the worst thing you could possibly do. That just tells the other party that you suspected that what you were doing was illegal and chose to do it anyway.

Mark Landman
PM Productions
Champaign, IL



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John Cuevas
Re: Another Copyright question....sheeesh
on Jun 7, 2018 at 7:37:17 pm

Is it possible to contact the owner of the footage and ask for permission to use the footage? I'm often surprised how often people let me use their footage with only a credit or 'footage provided by...' graphic.

Johnny Cuevas, Editor
ThinkCK

"I have not failed 700 times. I have succeeded in proving that those 700 ways will not work. When I have eliminated the ways that will not work, I will find the way that will work."
---THOMAS EDISON on inventing the light bulb.


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Another Copyright question....sheeesh
on Jun 8, 2018 at 2:20:32 am

I've been 100% successful getting permission to use a clip. Even in regional TV spots. I used a go pro ski jump clip from a Canadian ski jumper and it was perfect.

I'd go for the permission and you have a win-win. Permission and you pulled it off for your client!

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Mark Suszko
Re: Another Copyright question....sheeesh
on Jun 8, 2018 at 2:02:09 pm

You can rely on every bit of the advice already given. It used to be easier to just roll the dice and rip off this kind of material, but those days are waning as AI automation is getting better and faster at finding violations, and the penalties from YouTube and other social get stiffer.

Stick to our guns on this and if they won't bargain, you should refer them to your biggest rival. Let that guy enjoy what's going to happen eventually.

Also, clients who demonstrate their snakiness in this way are warning you that you are going to eventually get ripped off by them as well. it's just not smart business to keep a cheap, lazy and sketchy client, even if the money up front is good. Be sure to get paid in advance from this client.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Another Copyright question....sheeesh
on Jun 12, 2018 at 7:50:43 pm

[Rich Rubasch] "I've been 100% successful getting permission to use a clip. Even in regional TV spots. I used a go pro ski jump clip from a Canadian ski jumper and it was perfect.

I'd go for the permission and you have a win-win. Permission and you pulled it off for your client!"


Rick, I love everything about this advice.

My experience has NOT been 100% success, but you know what? That's PERFECT.

Greg, suppose you have to say, "Hey man, I checked with that dude on YouTube, and he wants $[amount] to use the clip." Your client will either say "Great, pay the man" or "No way, let's find something else", but either way, you'll be off the hook, and your client will have been served notice that creative choices have dollar signs attached to them.

And if the client says, "That's ridiculous, use it anyway, he'll never know" or something similar, and is generally not amenable to being gently schooled by you on how this stuff is supposed to work, you should definitely be asking yourself a whole bunch of other questions before taking the job at all.


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