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editing and music (not a technical post)

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Bob Zelin
editing and music (not a technical post)
on May 3, 2017 at 10:45:30 pm

Hi -
just watched a YouTube video of Alex Lifeson from Rush talking about the "excitement" of playing in open tuning on guitar - you know how to play the guitar, but all of a sudden, it's all different, and you have no idea of what you are doing and it's very exciting.

I think about this and editor reactions to different editing systems. AVID, Premiere, Resolve, FCP-X, FCP7, Media 100,
Vegas, HitFilm, iMovie - they are basically all the same - but if you are an expert in AVID (for example) - some will say "oh, this is cool, let's see how this one works" - and others will get angry and say "what is this CRAP - this sucks, I would never use this, the only thing that works is xxx".

So the better musicians are open, and EXCITED to see changes in how things work, and the old bags learn what they need to learn, and get angry and upset when changes are presented to them.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Mark Suszko
Re: editing and music (not a technical post)
on May 4, 2017 at 6:58:16 pm

Your post reminds me that i just recently saw The Zombies on tour, with Rod Argent still on the keyboards, and that guy must be in his mid-70's but you'd never know it, the way he was beating the living stuffing out of those keyboards. I hope I'm a FRACTION that good in another 20 years of noodling around.

Also, he taught the audience that they've been singing his most famous song wrong all these years: it's "Hold your head Up, WO-man, Hold your head up, WOMAN....."

The rest of the band still sounds amazing after all these years. What little they might have lost in volume and power, they make up for in control and character and expression. It gives me hope that i can still find ways to be relevant and interesting in another 2 decades. And I'm busy learning to play: "I Love You" by the Zombies on my acoustic-electric uke, along with a Dunlop Cry-Baby pedal I'm just beginning to learn to use.

Is this still a metaphor for video editors? Might be. Argent was playing an old Hammond B3 right next to the latest model synthesizers.


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Todd Terry
Re: editing and music (not a technical post)
on May 4, 2017 at 9:26:41 pm

[Mark Suszko] "Argent was playing an old Hammond B3..."

Which is one of the greatest instruments ever made, organ or otherwise.

And got me thinking, "What's a B-3 going for these day?" and thanks to the Googling machine I found my (very surprising) answer. Seems that you can readily find a great condition B3 in the $5K neighborhood these days, even a late 50s model. Some a bit more, but even some a fair bit less... half of that or so.

I was really surprised... I was expecting a few multiples of that number. I guess they made so many of the darn things that plenty are still around.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Bob Zelin
Re: editing and music (not a technical post)
on May 5, 2017 at 11:00:35 pm

it's funny -
you can have a 1950's 1960's Fender or Gibson and it's worth $25,000. But a piece of technology (Korg, Roland, Yamaha) has no value. And let's take that one step further. An early Apple Mac or a HP xw8000 has no value.
A Quantum DLT tape, or a Sony CRT BVM monitor has no value. Remember all the debates (I can't use an LCD screen, my clients demand a CRT) - is similar to the morons that thought that Film would last forever and that 4K was a trend that would never be accepted by professionals. Very different from music. Rod Argent, while known for the B3 in Argent, used an old Whirlitzer in the Zombies for all the hit songs, and he was AMAZING. The old mechanical instruments like that hold value - the electronic stuff - all a bunch of junk.

And don't get me started on the Mellotron - because Ron Lindeboom himself will come out of retirement to comment on this !

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Tim Wilson
Re: editing and music (not a technical post)
on May 5, 2017 at 11:46:18 pm

[Bob Zelin] "The old mechanical instruments like that hold value - the electronic stuff - all a bunch of junk. "

I was going to say that the Roland 808 is an exception -- arguably the sole instrument after the B3 to really change the world, and as revolutionary as any of them. Roland was so far ahead of their time that they chalked them up as a flop, and stopped selling them in 1983, just 3 years after their introduction. They were $1200 at the time, but one in decent condition will run you $5000 these days. Mint will run $35,000 or more.

Part of the reason for all this: transistors. It was an analog machine, and definitely had some ghosts in it that all-chip machines managed to banish. More reliable, but less soul.

From The Verge: How the Roland TR-808 revolutionized music

And the trailer for a fantastic documentary simply called 808.



But going back to your first post in the thread, where you wrote:

[Bob Zelin] "So the better musicians are open, and EXCITED to see changes in how things work, and the old bags learn what they need to learn, and get angry and upset when changes are presented to them. "

I love that. Endless curiosity. That's the ticket. Once you think you've seen, done, or learned everything important, you're done.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: editing and music (not a technical post)
on May 6, 2017 at 5:33:23 pm

I've actually seen some Hammond B3 and other B model organs over the last few years on the Craigslist Free section. I would have loved to have taken it home, but where do you put such a beast? And the ones I happened to see listed had Leslies included with them! This is in New England, New Hampshire specifically. I don't think that the newer generation - at least up here - values the sound and history of these organs.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Mark Suszko
Re: editing and music (not a technical post)
on May 6, 2017 at 6:21:35 pm

New England? Doesn't every home there by law have an old barn or shed to hold the Hammond B-3 plus an antique car or boat? :-)


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: editing and music (not a technical post)
on May 10, 2017 at 2:44:43 am

You're right Mark. But I think the B3s up here have been pushed out by the boats, antique cars, haying equipment, unused furniture, etc. And of course most people look at a Leslie and think it's a liquor cabinet or some sort of truncated sideboard.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Todd Terry
Re: editing and music (not a technical post)
on May 10, 2017 at 3:36:31 pm

I did find one posting for a B-3, I think a 1958 or so for $18K, and it looked looked museum-quality showroom new. That didn't surprise me.

The low end did surprise me, I found more than one decent-enough looking B-3 (with Leslie!) in the $2500 neighborhood.

Shocking. Wish I had room for one. And could play it.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: editing and music (not a technical post)
on May 15, 2017 at 5:09:54 pm

As usual, that's the deal, Todd. Talent not included...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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