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Here's what happens when the Sun-Times gets rid of their photographers

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Mark Landman
Here's what happens when the Sun-Times gets rid of their photographers
on Jun 28, 2013 at 1:11:38 pm

There was a thread on this forum a few weeks ago lamenting the fact that the Chicago Sun-Times pink slipped all of their photographers. Here's a link showing how the pro photographers at the Tribune illustrated the Stanley cup win and the Sun-Time version of the same story.

http://suntimesdarktimes.tumblr.com/post/53967466726/front-pages-june-26-20...


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David Eaks
Re: Here's what happens when the Sun-Times gets rid of their photographers
on Jun 28, 2013 at 1:30:26 pm

Lol, really validates the difference between a "photographer" and a "person with a camera".

One depicts the excitement of a crowd of fans around their glorious champions. The other shows some sad looking guy lugging a big silver thing, maybe going to get it appraised at an antique roadshow?


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Bob Zelin
Re: Here's what happens when the Sun-Times gets rid of their photographers
on Jun 28, 2013 at 2:06:34 pm

this is a biased post. I am guessing that this may have been taken by an "experienced" reporter, that has no idea of how to take photos.

What will ultimately happen, is that they will hire a bright, fresh 23 year old journalism major, who has been taking photos with his own 5D/7D for the last 6 years (and they all look great), and this new hire will bring HIS OWN CAMERA (because he is so happy to have a job as a senior sports reporter), and he will write the article, AND take GREAT photos, and the paper will then realize that "we can fire the old bag reporter that has been here for 20 years, and get this new kid, who is getting paid $28,000 a year, can do the same job, AND takes great photos, AND he supplies his own camera !!!!!". And while the 50 year old reporter goes home to cry about how everything sucks, this 23 year old will tell his friends and family "look - I am a senior reporter for the paper, I met all the guys that won the Stanley cup, and my shot is on the COVER of the paper". His parents will be proud and happy that they bought him that Canon in his freshman year of school. All his friends will be impressed, and he will go home a happy 23 year old. And the paper management will say "boy, that was a great decision - this kid's doing a great job, and taking 1/3 of what we were paying the old bag".


That's what will happen.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Here's what happens when the Sun-Times gets rid of their photographers
on Jun 28, 2013 at 2:29:08 pm

I like the one comment who asked if this was an "Onion" article!

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Tim Wilson
Re: Here's what happens when the Sun-Times gets rid of their photographers
on Jun 28, 2013 at 3:08:42 pm

[Bob Zelin] "What will ultimately happen, is that they will hire a bright, fresh 23 year old journalism major, who has been taking photos with his own 5D/7D for the last 6 years (and they all look great), and this new hire will bring HIS OWN CAMERA (because he is so happy to have a job as a senior sports reporter), and he will write the article, AND take GREAT photos, and the paper will then realize that "we can fire the old bag reporter that has been here for 20 years, and get this new kid, who is getting paid $28,000 a year, can do the same job, AND takes great photos, AND he supplies his own camera !!!!!""

This. My favorite post of the year so far.

Bob's right: the problem isn't who they took the job FROM. The problem is who they gave the job TO. They grossly miscalculated by giving new cameras to old reporters. Their plan will work to perfection when they get rid of those guys too, and bring in people who are dying to do both.

Despite the dominant recurring theme here, the future isn't ultimately being re-written by high schoolers who skipped college to compete against you with pirated copies of FCP. In places like Chicago, it's going to be journalism majors from Northwestern who are educated, skilled, and who, coming out of college will, be more experienced in more things than most of us were at 30.

I'm looking at TV and movies and thinking, I don't see the quality coming down. Quite the contrary. Newspapers are always slow. They'll eventually figure out how to do this too.


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Warren Eig
Re: Here's what happens when the Sun-Times gets rid of their photographers
on Jun 28, 2013 at 4:50:51 pm

[Tim Wilson] "I'm looking at TV and movies and thinking, I don't see the quality coming down. "

Yes, the quality is good. FX are better. BUT the stories and screenplays are worse. This is a real problem. Have you ever dealt with a 26 year old studio exec? It isn't pleasant when they have no cultural or filmic reference other than the films of the last 5 years.

Warren Eig
O 310-470-0905


email: warren@babyboompictures.com
website: http://www.babyboompictures.com


REEL: http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/Reels.html




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Tim Wilson
Re: Here's what happens when the Sun-Times gets rid of their photographers
on Jun 28, 2013 at 7:02:51 pm

[Warren Eig] "BUT the stories and screenplays are worse."

I completely disagree. On pay cable, start with Game of Thrones and Homeland. On basic cable, start with Breaking Bad, Mad Men and Justified (my vote for best written show this century). On broadcast, it's not only no worse than ever, but I think there are some genuine highs, including Elementary (a top 20 show), Arrow (why are you comix lovers not checking this out? I prefer it to Nolan's Batmans, but it's indisputably in that category).

Movies, I think the maturing Tarantino is one of the century's pleasantest suprises and most welcome trend. Silver Linings Playbook, Argo, Moneyball, a couple from Fincher - I could keep going on.

Admittedly, none of those are from people younger than their 40s. People in their 20s have never had any power in TV in particular, but even 40s is a big freaking deal. The age of people in control is dropping over time, and I'm still going to say that quality is overall going up.

I haven't even mentioned spots. The best spots have always been as entertaining as anything in any medium, and there are a bunch of great ones, and these too are being art directed by younger and younger people.

But since we're talking about the *craft,* shooting is up, editing is up, VFX is up, music is up -- there's really not a single category of the *craft* that's going anywhere but up.

You know I'm a huge fan of a classical education and paying dues -- even though punks with MacBook Pros have neither and respect neither.

BUT, for the group of people that Bob and I are talking about, people who ARE rigorously trained, who HAVE gone through high-powered internships, after having done this since they were 11, this is real.

(Remember when it was a big deal that Spielberg and Abrams were making movies as 8 year olds? That seemed so exotic and rare, so "of course" they're ambitious filmmakers. Guess what? It ain't rare anymore, and kids today can be MORE ambitious, because they have examples in front of them that didn't exist for these guys in their 40s-60s.)

It's not just the community colleges and trade schools (Full Sail, LA Film School and the like) that are booming either, and I respect those immensely. MFA programs like AFI -- whose graduates include the aforementioned Fincher, David Lynch, Caleb Deschanel, Cassavetes, Aronofsky -- are also off the hook right now, in addition to the 4-year programs that are at every school of any size.

This market isn't just being overrun by clueless wannabes...which again, I'm not disputing. But in the fashionable lamentations over THAT, we're completely missing the REAL trend that's going to change everything: smart kids who are going through tough programs. There are thousands of them being turned out every spring, and they're part of the reason why the quality of things is getting better over time, not worse.

Not that I have any good news for those folks being displaced right now, but I think it helps in the long run to be talking about the actual dominant dynamic instead of being distracted by a few obvious examples of the one that's changing the STRUCTURE Of the industry.


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Warren Eig
Re: Here's what happens when the Sun-Times gets rid of their photographers
on Jun 29, 2013 at 5:17:37 pm

I guess we differ. I find more and more, story development getting worse. Story is king. You are talking about the technical side and I agree that is getting better. But... if the story sucks who cares how good the FX or cinematography is.

Warren Eig
O 310-470-0905


email: warren@babyboompictures.com
website: http://www.babyboompictures.com


REEL: http://www.babyboompictures.com/BabyBoomPictures/Reels.html




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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Here's what happens when the Sun-Times gets rid of their photographers
on Jun 29, 2013 at 5:58:07 pm

I can see both points here, but when your film classics references are Joe VS the Volcano, and Gremlins II, the might be a problem with recognizing quality. That said, there are still many good films coming out any given time, with good story lines, and good shooting; they just don't make any of the "top films" lists. We're being fed crap because that's what we demand...

What's the saying? "No one ever lost money underestimating the taste of the American public."

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Mike Cohen
Re: Here's what happens when the Sun-Times gets rid of their photographers
on Jul 1, 2013 at 11:49:36 pm

Yesterday in our local rag, the Hartford Courant, they ran a syndicated travel essay from Tribune. 2 out of 4 of the photos were credited as iStockphoto. 1 was from the New Hampshire tourism office. The final pic was uncredited. So the photographs from iStock paid someone a few dollars.


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Eric Hansen
Re: Here's what happens when the Sun-Times gets rid of their photographers
on Jul 1, 2013 at 11:53:47 pm

The problem isn't that the 23 year old kick ass Jack Of All Trades took the job for $28k a year. The problem is that he graduated from Full Sail $100k in debt, lives in his proud parents' basement, was one of 2568 applicants for that job and was lucky to even land an interview.

And then he celebrated his new job by putting a new 55" Plasma TV on his Visa.

e

Eric Hansen
Production Workflow Designer / Consultant / Colorist / DIT
http://www.erichansen.tv


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Tom Sefton
Re: Here's what happens when the Sun-Times gets rid of their photographers
on Jul 2, 2013 at 10:30:10 am

So, the older guy who had been fired is now sat at home wondering what the hell to do. He's just helped his daughter buy her first home, his 12 year old labrador needs surgery and he can't afford to keep up his golf club membership and pay for his annual holiday with his wife. His son is at university and he needs to make sure he gets through his final year with minimal stress.

So he goes to the bank and asks for a little help setting up his photography business. He's already got his 5D, a nice macbook pro and some software but it would be really helpful if he could take some office space, extend his credit to cover his first 6 months and buy a couple of lenses that will help him do some architectural work. So the bank says, "yes we can lend you money, but you need to put your house up for collateral because we can't touch your sensible pension, unless you really want to cash it all in, and your savings are what we have for your daughters equity on the first home she bought". So having the support of his wife, he does just that. Six months go past and he has a nice office space, a few good clients and has been keeping up with his payments.

BUT, he hasn't played golf for ages so hasn't been exercising. He's also spent a lot of nights working late because he had to underbid for a few projects to get started. His wife is getting pretty pissed off at not seeing him very often and they are arguing more often. His stress levels are up, his cholesterol is climbing and a 23 year old kid has just opened a stills and video business across the street with a government grant to help get young people running their own businesses. His clients are asking for work for free occasionally, and he isn't in a position to tell them where to go. Younger businesses are cropping up that he wants to work for, but how confident is he that they will take on someone that isn't under 35? He wants to impress his quality of work and standards to them and it would really help if he could purchase the next lens and camera that Canon have released - another $10k gone. He is visiting the Dr more often to combat his rising blood pressure, so this is costing him money, and they just keep telling him to exercise more and work less.

So he can't decide what to do. Cash his pension in and sink everything into his business to make sure he has enough collateral to win some big money clients, or cut his losses and leave, take the job at Home Depot and tell his wife not to expect a holiday for the next few years. But if he leaves, he has to downsize his home, because after staking it for his business he is close to negative equity. The family home can't go - his kids grew up there, they have holidays together there and his wife just said that her mother could move in while she is ill! So after many sleepless nights trying to decide what would be best, he.....


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Bob Zelin
Re: Here's what happens when the Sun-Times gets rid of their photographers
on Jul 3, 2013 at 12:13:03 am

So after many sleepless nights trying to decide what would be best, he.....

REPLY -
takes a $70,000 a year job managing a WAWA gas station (see my post above). He just can't take it anymore.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
maxavid@cfl.rr.com


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