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New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers

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Jonathan Gould
New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 19, 2012 at 2:50:12 pm

Hello Everyone,
I'm trying to get some feedback on a program I've recently put together. My name is Jonathan Gould, some of you may recognize my name. My brother is a videographer and about 5 years ago I put together a marketing system for videography professionals. I could not continue with that business for personal reasons...not a good time for me.

Anyway, I've recently created a program that trains salespeople specifically to market corporate video. I've been studying marketing for 10 yrs and marketing for corporate video for 5 yrs. I've taken everything I've learned, all my materials and put them into this training program.

Basically, you can have your own well-trained salesperson promoting your business in your community.

I know some of you have tried this in the past with limited or no success. However, these people would be well trained and fully equipped with scripts, materials, etc.

The program is designed so that you don't have to take on this salesperson as an employee. No salary. No benefits. The only thing you would have to pay is 20% of the total production price for any referral you receive from your Independent Marketing Executive.

I'm looking for your feedback. Does this sound like something you would be willing to try? In general, how do you feel about it?

Thanks for your time,

Jonathan


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Mark Suszko
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 19, 2012 at 3:50:46 pm

I'm leery of script-based sales presentations. They are generally too generic and transparently cynical, and I feel that sales has to be an individualized one-on-one transaction, a ral conversation with give-and-take, and everyjob is a custom job. Every prospect a unique individual you have to get to know in some way, before you can effectively sell them on something they didn't know they wanted.

Video (if done right) is not a commodity business, IMO. You don't sell bulk video production services like you do office supplies.

It's a "bespoke" service, hand-wrought and crafted to each customer's unique needs and specifications.

Making a potential customer aware of the existence of the service is one thing. Getting them to the next step of seeing how a video might solve their communications problem is another level, a level above the "sale". It's at heart as much a consulting service as a product.


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Todd Terry
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 19, 2012 at 4:19:05 pm

[Jonathan Gould] "Does this sound like something you would be willing to try?"

It might work super well for some, but I'm not sure it's anything we would try in our shop.

I'm not really much a fan of commission-based anything. If I were going to hire someone to do sales, I'd personally much rather be a stand-up employer and actually put someone on staff (with salary and benefits), rather than basically hiring a "freelance" sales person and pay them an exorbitant commission.

I don't know about anyone else in here, but here we certainly don't have enough of a profit margin to give anyone a 20% cut of anything... unless we were to seriously jack up our rates. And then our clients wouldn't buy that... we're already the most expensive game in town and it's hard enough to get clients to pony up the dough for what we do charge. Actually, we don't have so much trouble with getting clients, agreeing to our rates, or landing jobs... we're pretty blessed to keep a full production schedule. The only kink is sometimes getting them to find their checkbooks after a job is done... we have a few clients that need a nudge in that direction now and then.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Jonathan Gould
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 19, 2012 at 5:10:14 pm

Thanks for the feedback Todd.


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Jonathan Gould
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 19, 2012 at 4:26:05 pm

Hi Mark,
I agree with you. I too am leery of script-based sales presentations. However, I'd rather be loosely scripted making sure I get across my point with clarity and purpose as opposed to presenting a mish-mosh of information. After all, these people are representing your business. The program is more about the right "approach" and less about memorizing scripts.

I also agree with what you said about it being another level to show your clients how you will help them with their marketing needs. Right now, these potential clients probably don't know you and almost certainly don't know what you can do for them. So, first step has to be awareness. Then, show them what you can do. The Independent Marketing Executive should make them aware of you and also give them some idea of how you will help them. Then, it is up to you to sell them further on a video.

Thanks for your feedback.


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Ronald Lindeboom
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 19, 2012 at 4:39:32 pm

Long ago in a desert far far away near Tim Wilson's house in the sand, I got to spend the day with the retired former VP of Sales for Frigidaire Corporation.

He was a great guy and he taught me a lot of great things in a day.

One of the things that he told me was this: "Ron, if I had someone like you on my team, I gave them a script. If in a week they could not recite the script verbatim, they were gone. But if in two weeks time if they were still using it, they were gone."

Translation?

He said that the point was that if you are going to sell something, you need to "mentally be in contact" with what you are trying to sell. It needs to be so much a part of your nature that you can reel off the pitch verbatim if you had to. But the magic comes in when you are so skilled at that, that you can shift gears and tweak and modify the presentation to play to the rapidly changing circumstances.

Tim Wilson and I use this approach all the time. We script and rehearse the pitch we are going to make. We practice it back and forth until we get so good at it that it rolls off the two of us. Then when we go in to make our presentations, we can quickly drop and add and modify things based on how things are developing.

I have always thought that "if you can't do the script in a week, you are gone -- but if you are still using it in two weeks, you are gone" is a pretty good mental starting point when making sales pitches.

Works for us.

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC
Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America
http://www.creativecow.net


Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.

"Incompetence has never prevented me from plunging in with enthusiasm."
- Woody Allen


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Richard Herd
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 19, 2012 at 4:56:20 pm

Reminds me of the scene in Reservoir Dogs. "It's an amusing anecdote. Make it your own."


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Richard Herd
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 19, 2012 at 4:27:45 pm

[Jonathan Gould] "The only thing you would have to pay is 20% of the total production price for any referral you receive from your Independent Marketing Executive."

This part is tongue in cheek: If you want 20% from me, then it would require more than a referral. In fact, I will promote you to producer! You can keep the whole contract value and as much mark up as you can negotiate and simply hire me to do some stuff. Now that's a sweet deal!

This part is actual: Mark Suszko lays it out pretty well. Corporations are big bureaucracies, so the relationship between the corporate contact and myself is very valuable.

In other words, if you have these relationships established, then you should consider "promoting" yourself to Producer. You can find some detail budgets by googling "aicp bid form" which stands for Association of Independent Commercial Producers.


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Jonathan Gould
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 19, 2012 at 5:17:33 pm

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm curious...If I refer you to a local business owner (basically a warm lead that i cultivated) and that lands you lets say a $6000 job, you wouldn't be OK with paying me $1200?

I know you have other costs, but this is $4800 you never would have seen. Isn't it? Plus, the chance for future business through referrals or other videos.

Please help me understand.


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Mark Suszko
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 19, 2012 at 6:01:26 pm

If he's following his rate card and budgeting right, the $6k is what it costs plus his markup and profit, and not much more. His choice is then to add on your commission to his 6k price, making his cost higher, or take a 1200-dollar hit on the 6k job *somewhere* in his budget. Now I suppose that's "possible". But. Where does he take that money from? The margins are pretty tight already. He's got sunk costs to cover, and opportunity cost for the time the job will take. Does he hire a cheaper, less capble assistant, to save that cost? Or does he get lesser lighting gear rental? Maybe he budgets less time on he compositing work and goes with common templates rather than more customized effects? Needle-drop music, instead of custom? Suddenly, he's charging more than he usually does, but delivering "less" product. In a subjective sense, that is.

You seem to be suggesting that he only pays your commission once for the initial contact, then he's got a new client and he can spread that acquisition cost over several jobs? Maybe.

The most expensive "free" gift I got was this classic antique RC model sailplane a friend spotted at an estate sale and gave to me, gratis. To get it in flyable condition, I had to buy double it's value in new radio system components, plus spend quite a bit of time sanding down the fiberglass and re-finishing it, installing the new gear, plus additional money for a new launching system because this thing has a 13-foot wingspan and is too heavy for my existing launch mechanism. So the "free" plane, while awesome, so far has got me sucked in for $400 and it's yet to fly.

You can also go with a "restore this FREE 66 Mustang" analogy, in that yes, you now have a free Mustang but before you enjoy using it you're going to drop about 20 grand restoring it. How many trips do I drive the Mustang, to spread out that investment?


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Jonathan Gould
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 19, 2012 at 6:46:10 pm

OK, I hear what you're saying. But if the margins are that tight, how do you do any marketing or employ any business growth strategies at all?

If I was sending you one client per month or more, could you figure out how to make it work?

And, if you knew it was a referral from me, couldn't you charge $7200 instead of $6000?

As far as the client goes after the first job...If I promote another video and send in a referral sheet, I get 20%. If you promote to him and book another job, no 20%.


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Scott Sheriff
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 20, 2012 at 8:49:52 am

[Jonathan Gould] "OK, I hear what you're saying. But if the margins are that tight, how do you do any marketing or employ any business growth strategies at all?"

Well there are the typical ways freelancers market themselves, web, cold calls. There is also the relationship concept. Often most (freelancers) are trying to establish a relationship with clients that are not going to be one time only deal. This tends to work best for everyone. And then there is word of mouth, and reputation.

[Jonathan Gould] "If I was sending you one client per month or more, could you figure out how to make it work?"

Right off the bat, one client a month is not enough, if they are averaging your hypothetical 6k. That is only 72k a year, which is just enough to support the average one man bad, and his associated overhead. It is not enough to support an additional worker.
What figure could work?
At best, 10% of the net, once the client pays in full. That is the very most a referral from someone with no skin in the game is worth. And I'm talking after paying all the expenses, not just the obvious costs. This would including paying myself to do not only the actual project, but the billing, bank, maintenance, head time/hours on machines, facilities use, insurance, etc costs associated with said job. Which would only be fair since there would be know way of making the 6k, without my doing all the production, and the ancillary work.
It would be impossible to come up with a solid figure with so little info on your hypothetical 6k job, but lets say all went really well, and after it was all said and done the net profit (20%) was 1,200 dollars. Your cut would be $120.

[Jonathan Gould] "And, if you knew it was a referral from me, couldn't you charge $7200 instead of $6000?"

No.
Most projects have an associated budget. If it takes all the budget to produce the project, where does that extra money come from???
Maybe you should try telling the client your charging a 20% finder fee, for getting them a shooter/editor, whatever. There are crew booking companies that charge the client for finding crew. But they don't get 20%. And they do provide a time consuming service that some clients either would rather not do, or don't have the contacts or resources in the market to do themselves.
Look, a 6k project, is a 6k project. You can't just mark it up 20% without delivering 20% more value to the client. This is the equivalent of buying items at retail, then marking them up 20%, and trying to sell them in a market that has access to the items at the same retail price you were paying before the mark-up. The only way this could possibly work is if the client/buyer live in a vacuum, and is unaware of the millions of others doing the same thing for 20% less.

[Jonathan Gould] "As far as the client goes after the first job...If I promote another video and send in a referral sheet, I get 20%. If you promote to him and book another job, no 20%."

Typically, that is correct. Except for that 20% figure you are liking. You get a booking, agent fee, or whatever you call it for every gig you bring, not every client. If a client is a repeat on his own, no soup for you.

Most sales types in local broadcasting get 10% selling spots. Some might even get a little more. No one is getting 20% to sell local air. And plenty of stations that do local production, have tried to sell it on a commission basis, and few, if any, have found success with that model. Most end up going back to production being a loss leader, to get the air buy. The extra "money for nothing", just isn't there.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com


"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair

Where were you on 6/21?


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Jonathan Gould
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 20, 2012 at 12:57:52 pm

Hi Scott, I appreciate your comments. To clarify, I envision you having a well-trained "foot soldier" promoting your work to the community. I'm not really talking big corporations that you need a pre-established relationship.

These sales reps would be trained on what kind of businesses are right for a promotional video, for example plastic surgeon, cosmetic dentist, chiropractor, restaurant, and so on. They would be trained to target the right businesses.

In this case, a $6000 job is not a $6000 job. The price is whatever you tell them it is. These local business owners have no clue what the "going rate" is and I don't think they could tell the difference between a $6000 job and a $30,000 job. They probably have zero experience with video marketing.

In this case, you could charge the $7200 to cover the referral fee.

Yes it is true that you are the expert and you do the bulk of the work and what you do is genius, however you could be the very best videographer this side of the Mississippi but if nobody knows about you, you'll be the best kept secret.

Nothing happens until you get the client. The sales rep will facilitate you getting the client. It is a necessary first step. Without the sales rep, how will the local community find out about you. And if they don't find out about you, they are missing out on one awesome way to promote their business.

Hearing everybody's opinion, perhaps 15% of the total project is more like it. And you know what, if they work their butt off and pursue a prospect for you and book a consultation for you, don't they deserve to earn some money. An amount that provides some incentive?

All the best.


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Ronald Lindeboom
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 20, 2012 at 2:55:46 pm

From reading you, Jonathan, it is pretty clear to me that you think that this is far easier than it is. Over the last 20 years or so, I have had a couple of people come in talking like you and telling me how they are an experienced salesperson and can make me money.

Both blanked.

Oh, they were experienced salespeople, no doubt. But what they didn't know was the nature of this industry and the fact that (by your own admission you are not dealing with major corporations) small local businesses are pitched time after time by local TV stations and cable companies. These TV stations and cable companies will do the production work for free to get the ad buy.

So it's not as easy as you imply to get these small businesses to bite on $6,000 worth of production and "then just throw another $1200 on top" because "they don't know what this stuff costs." Yes they do. It costs them nothing, most times.

The exception to that rule is someone who builds a relationship with a client and proves their value enough to get the money. And the value I am talking about is not sales ability and being able to close a deal.

This is not a commodity item and people are not going to line up like you think they are going to. There are many people who get into this industry because they think it's going to be a fun job. The reality is, this is not an easy job and it is highly competitive. Added to the normal day to day competition between production shops, are the local TV and cable outlets that work really cheap. They have feet on the ground and when their salespeople burn out they throw a fresh face at the same business owners, who then get the same pitch over and over every time a new person joins the sales team.

I apologize in advance if this seems rude but I think that yours are the machinations of someone who thinks they have found a good idea. Unfortunately it is a formula many of us have seen and heard over and over again in the last 20 years. There are all kinds of versions of this story that I have heard over the years, yet not once have I heard of it working for any of the people that I know here.

But you are welcome to try...

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC
Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America
http://www.creativecow.net


Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.

"Incompetence has never prevented me from plunging in with enthusiasm."
- Woody Allen


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Jonathan Gould
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 20, 2012 at 3:01:39 pm

Ok Ronald,
Thank you for your honest opinion. I will take it all into consideration.

Be Well,
Jonathan


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Mark Suszko
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 20, 2012 at 5:25:16 pm

If I might riff off part of Ron's post, the thing that irks me about media sales and marketing types that offer to do my marketing for me is, they are the wrong person to send to the client. You should send the guy that does the work, armed with knowledge of how to sell, rather than a salesman who doesn't really understand what he can sell. In small video businesses, YOU are the product, and you are thus the only truly qualified person to represent that product.


But let's assume for minute that magic happens, and the salesman gets the sit-down with the client, the sales dude without TV and video-making experience can't answer the kind of questions that can come up, and they can't extrapolate items that come up in the live conversation and immediately point to specific abilites or talents or portfolio items from the business to connect the client's needs or ideas to what's possible. A generic salesman is good at vague promises and over-promising on deliverables. A staff person doing a consult knows when to not over-promise things that are not practical from a technical or messaging perspective.

The guy who knows those answers is the producer, editor, writer, or director. If you have to have one of them tag along to answer client questions on the spot, really, what was the point of having a salesman there at all? I think the better strategy is to take a video expert and teach them salesmanship, rather than try to teach a saleman enough about the video business to make a good sales consultant.

I'm talking about the difference between a salesman and a sales consultant. A salesman comes in with a canned product or service contract pitch, x service for y price, he tells you a price and gives a list of services or benefits. He moves units, He's a commodity mover. And he's completely interchangable with any other commodity mover.

The sales consultant brings unique expertise and creativity to the problem. He or she listens to the customer FIRST and learns what his needs and problems are, then, if he has nothing that helps, he says so, thanks you for your time, and leaves.

If he thinks he can offer specific things to solve the communications problem, he explains those things, connects the dots, shows the strategy behind the solution, lays out the steps of the process, answering questions all along the way, and then he tries to close a deal on his company being the one that knows how to make this specific thing the specific way. By that time, the customer is likely to agree, hopefully, that this unique, crafted, custom solution is going to solve his particular and specific need. They've bought into the vision you've created, together.


I think I would be a terrible salesman for most products or services. I can't look someone in the eye and try to convince them to buy something I know they don't need. I think I *could* be a decent sales consultant for a product or service I deeply understood, because what I'm doing is helping someone solve a real problem.


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Jonathan Gould
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 20, 2012 at 7:12:42 pm

"The guy who knows those answers is the producer, editor, writer, or director."

Absolutely, couldn't agree with you more.

This is not the job of the marketing executive. The marketing executive is the catalyst. Their job is to introduce the service, see if the prospect is interested,and then set up a consultation with you.

What they are basically doing are the things that you can't (don't have the time) or are unwilling (don't want to hit the streets and promote) to do.

They don't need "magic". They need a basic understanding of the service. They need a passion for helping people and for the service. They need appreciation and they need incentive.

"If he thinks he can offer specific things to solve the communications problem, he explains those things, connects the dots, shows the strategy behind the solution, lays out the steps of the process, answering questions all along the way, and then he tries to close a deal on his company being the one that knows how to make this specific thing the specific way. By that time, the customer is likely to agree, hopefully, that this unique, crafted, custom solution is going to solve his particular and specific need. They've bought into the vision you've created, together."

This is your job as the producer. This is not the marketing executives job. But if you never meet the person, you will never have the chance.


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Richard Herd
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 20, 2012 at 7:16:31 pm

20% of gross is way too steep.
2% of net is realistic.


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Jonathan Gould
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 20, 2012 at 7:27:19 pm

2% of net won't inspire anyone. Keep in mind, I'm out and about promoting you and not getting paid unless I produce some results.

You may need to adjust your pricing to include my 15% (not 20% anymore, you guys made your point), instead of $6000, you could charge $6900. It's just math. You probably already determine what you will make on a given project so you can now account for me.


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Richard Herd
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 20, 2012 at 8:03:04 pm

LOL!

Without you I have my current clients.
Without me you don't have a product.

$6900 is more than just math, dude.


[Jonathan Gould] "You probably already determine what you will make on a given project so you can now account for me." Try producing, no joke. If you want front end cash, sales ain't it. Try insurance or law.


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Mark Suszko
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 20, 2012 at 9:36:45 pm

(quote about knowing the product/service): "This is your job as the producer. This is not the marketing executives job. But if you never meet the person, you will never have the chance."


We just have a fundamental disagreement here. I don't care if you only charge 2 percent, what you say your offering as the "contact" is no more than I can do by cold-calling likely prospects myself.

(maybe NSFW)







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Richard Herd
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 19, 2012 at 7:25:08 pm

I think you would be sending me lots of grinders.

http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/clients-or-grinders-understanding-t...

Again, Mark has it right.

I'm serious when I said, "Try being a Producer, if you have corporate clients ready to buy some video." Start with the writing. After that your next step is a kind request for proposals/bids/quotes, from video geeks.


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Scott Sheriff
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 20, 2012 at 6:40:53 am

[Jonathan Gould] "I'm curious...If I refer you to a local business owner (basically a warm lead that i cultivated) and that lands you lets say a $6000 job, you wouldn't be OK with paying me $1200?"

No.
Hell no!
You must be crazy.
Or maybe you think most of us work with some huge margins, that we can just piss away 20% of the gross.
To get 20% you're going to have to work a lot harder than that. Especially since I'm doing the bulk of the hard work, and the part that requires the most specialized knowledge, and the part that requires the most skill, and taking all the financial risks, and...Well, I think you get my point.
Not to mention that most of us get free referrals all the time from friends, clients, etc.

Lets say "your" client that you refer me to, stiffs me for the 6k after I do all the work on the project. How much of that 6k are you going to be responsible for?
How much of my income are you going to be responsible for replacing if you strike out at getting gigs for me, and I'm idle?
Because at 20%, I expect performance, and some kind of a guarantee for the amount of work delivered, and that the client isn't some dead-beat, or grinder.
I think you should risk your money and bid the job as the producer, then sub out what you need done, keeping what is left over. Do it this way a few times, and you will see why squeezing 20% out of the average freelancer is going to be a tough row to hoe.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com


"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair

Where were you on 6/21?


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Mark Suszko
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 20, 2012 at 7:41:37 am

I know it was "the thing" to have a pro sales rep/publicist working for directors and editors, back in the 80's, mostly flogging their clients to ad agencies then. I had an editor friend who did that for a while, he dropped it after a year; the financial math didn't work out.

I suspect that was pretty common because I don't hear much about agents repping editors anywhere outside of maybe NYC and LA, where I don't know much about things. And I suppose it might still work for Directors. But frankly, I think this is a mode of operation that's gone out of style, as these days everybody's a multitasking Renaissance man or woman, and markets themselves.

I'll agree with you that not everyone does the best job of it. And they may be missing business opportunities.

On the gripping hand, they're not paying anybody an ongoing percentage, and can pass some of that savings on to the customers...

I would suggest you convert your sales training into something people buy to use for themselves, instead of a commissioned service. - particularly if you can offer one on one email or phone consults for a fixed rate, I think you'd get some customers wanting specific expert answers to specific situations. This is a familiar model to today's video people who are used to buying plug-ins and music clips and training modules for software on an as-needed basis.

I just don't see how the math works out for hiring a commissioned agent today, for a typical small business owner-operator. It may work better for larger outfits where economies of scale and extended lines of credit may help.

I wish you every success and chance to prove me wrong. But there you are.


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Adam Duplay
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 20, 2012 at 6:20:15 pm

Scott Sheriff succinctly identifies the key issue at hand (although I'm not sure the math is correct)...

"...lets say all went really well, and after it was all said and done the net profit (20%) was 1,200 dollars. Your cut would be $120."

A $6000 job does not yield $6000 profit. By taking 20% of the total budget, you are asking for a cut of what I pay my vendors (grip rental, PA's, etc), which in most cases are long standing relationships that I spent a lot of time cultivating before you came along. It's not atypical for me to have paid them out of my own pocket in the past regardless of the profitability or cash flow of the particular job they worked on, just to preserve that relationship.

There is definitely value in someone who can deliver sales, but in this business it has to be a two way street. The sales person's fortune has to rise and fall with the profitability of each job.

Adam Duplay


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Jonathan Gould
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 20, 2012 at 7:22:36 pm

OK, OK, OK. Let's say 15%. That was my original thought but I wanted to test the waters at 20%. And let me tell you, the waters ain't pretty.

"A $6000 job does not yield $6000 profit. By taking 20% of the total budget, you are asking for a cut of what I pay my vendors (grip rental, PA's, etc)"

Again, let's say 15%. I'm repeating myself when I say, without the client nobody gets paid. Not you or the vendors or the sales rep. My feeling is that the person bringing you the client, should be top on the list. Yes I know the others make the finished product possible but my feeling is the one who gets the client wins out.

"There is definitely value in someone who can deliver sales, but in this business it has to be a two way street. The sales person's fortune has to rise and fall with the profitability of each job."

The pricing (and thus the profitability) is determined by you. You could adjust your pricing to include my 15%. On a $6000 job, that would be a price increase of $900. So charge $6900 instead of $6000. So I get $900 and you get $6000 to then produce and pay who you need to pay.

What if it's a $10,000 job. You charge $11,500. I get $1500 and you get the full $10,000 minus paying your people that you would have to pay anyways.

Keep in mind, as your marketing man on the streets, I'm getting paid nothing to spend my time promoting you. I get nothing if I generate nothing.


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Scott Sheriff
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 20, 2012 at 10:57:04 pm

[Jonathan Gould] "Again, let's say 15%. I'm repeating myself when I say, without the client nobody gets paid. Not you or the vendors or the sales rep. My feeling is that the person bringing you the client, should be top on the list. Yes I know the others make the finished product possible but my feeling is the one who gets the client wins out."

You may feel that that the person bringing the client in should get a big cut off the top, but that doesn't make it so. You want to charge what amounts to a premium price for your services, but don't want to assume any of the risk, nor do you offer anything I can't do for myself. You are simply not in a position to demand a large percentage of the gross. And certainly not a higher percentage than what is customary. You need to look at what agents make, and what they do for the money.

[Jonathan Gould] "The pricing (and thus the profitability) is determined by you."

That is false. The pricing is determined by the market. And the market can't bear the cost of your service at the percentage you want. You can try to justify it a hundred different ways, but the bottom line is the money to pay what you want simply isn't there.
Even if it was, you are still way overcharging, and under delivering for reasons that I stated in previous posts. Even if you brought me super easy, low risk, high dollar gig, lets say a low-mid level feature post. Where I didn't have to hire any crew, or go shoot anything. All I had to do was go to my studio and cut footage, I still wouldn't give you 15% of the gross. I think you would have a hard time finding anyone that would.

As several of us have said before. It's been tried, and it doesn't work. And trust me it has been tried in a much better economy, and at a time where there were much fewer choices and the business was closed to outside competition. It didn't work then, and it certainly won't work now. This economy simply can't hand out free money to people that are not significantly contributing to the bottom line in either services rendered, or risk.

I'll say it again, if you think it is so easy, and you can just charge 15-20% more than everyone else in the market, try this. What you need to do is bid these projects yourself as the producer. Then you can bid whatever you want. Higher whomever you want, offering whatever you want to pay, do all the work to get paid and make the client happy, and you get to keep all the money left over at the end.
I think you will find it a learning experience.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com


"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair

Where were you on 6/21?


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Jeff Breuer
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 25, 2012 at 4:21:49 pm

[Mark Suszko] "I would suggest you convert your sales training into something people buy to use for themselves"

I think Mark has a good idea here Jon. There may not be much demand for a commissioned salesperson, but if you have a training program ready to go with a lot of experience and knowledge behind it, why not convert that into something consumable. It would be great for people venturing out on their own or college kids looking for their next step. Something to think about.

Jeff


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Jonathan Gould
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 26, 2012 at 2:51:07 pm

Thanks for your thoughts...

Yes I could put this into a training program for the videographer but that's like teaching you how to fish instead of just giving you the fish! Do you really have the time or the desire to go out and prospect around your community? You guys are busy with your "genius" - shooting, editing, producing.

The marketing executives prove their worth through value-add, finding the leads, pre-qualifying them and doing other things like following-up to make sure the contracts go through. Wow… someone wants to help me get more business, instead of paying several thousand a month on, often, wasted advertising… Gee I wonder what that would be worth to me so I can focus on that $10K Medical training video this coming Sunday where I am promised even more of those if I get it right?

Take care.


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Mark Suszko
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 26, 2012 at 8:12:40 pm

You're trying to sell people on hiring a middleman, in the decade where those are going extinct in many walks of life.


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Ronald Lindeboom
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 26, 2012 at 9:14:24 pm

Not to mention, Mark, that if in all the feedback no one here seems to be sold on the idea, what are the chances that a client is going to be locked down and delivered in a way that won't blow up in the producer's face?

That's what I keep thinking...

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC
Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America
http://www.creativecow.net


Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.

"Incompetence has never prevented me from plunging in with enthusiasm."
- Woody Allen


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Richard Herd
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Jan 30, 2012 at 4:59:49 pm

[Jonathan Gould] "if I get it right?"

So what happened? Did you get it right?


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Al Bergstein
Re: New Independent Marketing Executive Program for Videographers
on Feb 13, 2012 at 4:55:38 am

I don't understand. Isn't it the producer's role to sell the project, find the money people? your sales person is going to be calling into my same accounts yet not promoting me over anyone else? Or have I misunderstood something here. Why aren't you just selling your producer ability rather than your marketing ability? Sorry if I'm dense on this. I come from a small market.

Al


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