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I think I'm done

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Nick GriffinI think I'm done
by on Aug 19, 2010 at 9:49:29 pm

I have now officially become disgusted with twenty-somethings and think I'm done giving them any consideration ever again.

1) Very talented art director wannabee whose work I was introduced to while judging a student design competition sponsored by one of my clients. Wow! I'll bet this kid would jump at the chance to do real work and with summer vacation coming who wouldn't want to earn about 12 times per hour what McDonalds pays. Not even through the first project and he'd rather fight about suggestions than accept them. AND he was being paid the whole time! And the work he was doing made me wonder if he'd actually submitted someone else's stuff in the competition because it was MUCH better than what he was showing me.

2) In looking for someone to grip for a two day shoot I gave a twenty-something kid, who said he was very anxious to learn and a real "go-getter", a chance rather than going with any of the older pros who also responded to my post. Despite detailed instructions on time and place -- and phone confirmation before the shoot -- a NO SHOW. Wouldn't even answer his cell phone.

3) A "working professional" who posted here bemoaning his current work situation and how he was being taken advantage of by his first employer out of college. (Scroll down, you'll find it.) Told him that we could use someone with his motivation and skill set but that I like to get to know people with a freelance project or two first. Called cell a few days later with job ready to go. No answer, no returned call. Called the next day with same result. Sent an email asking "WTF?" No response.

I'm done. Sorry Gen Y. I'd blame it on your age, but I (and almost everyone I know) was NOTHING like that at your age. We wanted to work, wanted to get started and would even work for free to do stuff with people doing what we wanted to do for a living. Guess things have changed.


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walter biscardiRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 19, 2010 at 9:59:12 pm

Well, I'm not done, I'm just really cautious. When it comes to freelance work that involves a client, I don't allow anyone but a trusted source to come in.

When it comes to trying out new people, I have them work on our own stuff. I have two 20 somethings in here now that are just incredible and make the office a fun place. Prior to that, I did have one guy who bailed out halfway through a contract.

Actually the worst experience I've had was with an experience editor whom I've worked with for 5 years or so. Completely bailed out on a 4 month edit after the first month. Didn't even tell me. Told the client who called me furious.

Sorry you've had the bad luck, but don't completely get rid of Gen Y. There are a few good ones out there (maybe they're all down here in Atlanta?) so you just need to keep searching. Course I do think it's ironic that you tried to help someone in THIS VERY FORUM with work and he blows it.

You're a good man Nick and glad you can vent here. But sooner or later, that right "kid" will walk in the door and you'll be set!

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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Nick GriffinRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 19, 2010 at 10:05:25 pm

Thanks, Walt. Problem is I just listed the latest three incidents, with the last one as a last straw. (LEARN FROM THIS, CHILDREN!) I'm sure there are some good ones, I'm just growing very weary looking for them. And getting damn tired of the entitlement attitude.


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Bob ZelinRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 19, 2010 at 10:14:47 pm

I disagree with you Nick. Laziness has been in our society for a long time. Yes, TONS of people - IN EVERY INDUSTRY, just don't show up. People always say "how you do stay so busy and booked all the time" - I always have the same answer - "I SHOW UP". Most people don't show up - roofers, plumbers, sheet rock guys, and yes "video professionals".

I have seen this with "professional video salesman". Back in the stone age, I wanted to buy a GVG200, and I could NOT get the Grass Valley rep in NY to simply call me back to take my money. Don't you want the money ? I am aware of a broadcast operations job right now, and I can't find someone who will take the job. And I see people show up with "the usual" nonsense. This company is using GVG Edius (don't ask), and editors who NEED WORK, just walk out, instead of saying "well, I will learn this". I don't get it. Again, DONT YOU WANT THE MONEY ? Would you rather be working in grocery store, or a moving company ?

Bob Zelin



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Mike CohenRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 19, 2010 at 10:35:24 pm

The following is a list of ambitious / character building things I did between age 18 and 21 - Gen Y-ers take note:

1. Worked at McDonald's - since I was over 18 I was tasked with emptying the grease trap at midnight and carrying the bucket to the grease dumpster, (where I would actually pass it off to Tyler Durden.)

2. Also worked at Burger King - given my experience with grease and fat and cooking food that had dropped on the floor, I was a natural.

3. Worked at Home Depot - I got an upgrade to cashier. This was in the 1800's, so we had to manually count change and call VISA each time a credit card was used, then use those carbon copy slidey things. And at the end of the night if your drawer was off by more than a few dollars, you had to fill out a form for the manager.

4. Worked as an intern at an ABC affiliate. While this was actually quite a valuable experience, about half of each day was spent making copies, tearing multi-page carbon feed scripts.

5. Worked as an intern at a CBS affiliate. This was pretty boring - calling the state police looking for stories, answering the phone (I talked to Oprah a few times!) and fielding calls from deranged people thinking they had stories. I did get to go in the field with reporters, which was cool - I met Jesse Jackson, Mrs. Bush and Dr Henry Lee.

6. Worked as an intern for a cable advertising office - edited 30 second spots for local supermarket each week - shooting video of steaks, milk, ice cream, etc.

7. Final internship for a corporate communications company. Learned a lot, but also got to clean bird droppings off of XLR cables, load and unload gear daily, empty garbage etc. But I did learn how to make a B-reel for online edit sessions, time decks, backfocus a camera, trick the white balance, run a teleprompter and innumerable other skills that serve me to this day.

8. Worked as an usher at the campus theater - took tickets, prevented deranged fans from getting near Suzanne Vega, Wynton Marsalis or some crazy kids calling themselves Phish.

9. Worked audiovisual at a campus auditorium - hitting play on a VCR, turning lights on and off, etc.
10. Worked as a studio assistant - logging tapes, helping teach classes. This was cool since I was the only one other than professors with a key to the studio for a while - great opportunity to LEARN.

So as Nick said - young people wanting to make it in life in general and in our industry specifically, need to go out and learn, be ambitious and SHOW UP.

But then, as now, such an approach was rare.

I took the road less traveled and that has made all the difference.

Mike Cohen


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Todd TerryRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 19, 2010 at 11:54:16 pm

[Nick Griffin]"You kids get out of my damn yard! With your rock-n-roll music and your confounded hula hoops!"

Kidding, Nick. I have felt your pain many times. But I've also has some really good twenty-somethings. Unfortunately though, the ratio of bad to good was about 20:1.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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David JohnsonRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 20, 2010 at 2:02:31 am

Well, it is his damn yard after all. ;~)

In all seriousness, I've often felt the same frustration and anger with kids who clearly feel entitled to everything people twice their age have and more, but are thoroughly unwilling and unable to do anything at all to earn it ... what I call the EZ-button generation (if this one is "Y", is the next one the last one or do we go back to "A"?).

Even so, I try to remind myself that, when I was a 20-something 20 years ago, I wrote, directed, shot, logged, edited and built graphics for a college project long-form documentary with one other person only somewhat helping with writing and a few on-screen stand-ups because the other half dozen 20-something "team" members either didn't show at all or showed only enough to say they were present, yet contributed literally zero. I later got the show aired locally, won a few minor awards, got a few small grants, and am still in the business (like the one other contributor) ... within 10 years after, I encountered several of those other "team" members working in restaurants, a dry cleaners, a drug store, etc.

My point is that, my personal observation has consistently been that the "entitlement attitude" Nick refers to has indeed spread wider and deeper with more recent generations, but it has always been there and the individuals with above-average work ethic, drive, etc. have always been the exception, rather than the rule.

So, as someone already mentioned, the real problem is that the odds of finding the good ones aren't on our side. In other words, perhaps you shouldn't give up on an entire generation, Nick ... just most of it.

Best of luck in your search for good people. Cheers.


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Bob ZelinRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 20, 2010 at 2:23:35 pm

Dave Johnson writes -
"kids who clearly feel entitled to everything "

This is what seperates past generations of lazy people, vs. todays "Gen Y". Entitlement.

Many young people today (I see them first hand, so you can't debate this, or say I am wrong -) have no work, yet they have nice cars, nice cel phones, their own apartments, money to go out with, and yet, they are unemployed, or almost unemployed. I used to call this "Paris Hilton syndrome", but Paris Hilton actually works, and many of these kids don't, and will not get dirty or inconvenienced to achieve their goals. Not to turn this into a politically charged dialog (and I apologize in advance), but when I see a "illegal immigrant" construction crew busting their behinds for minimum wage, working VERY hard, and later that day, a bunch of lazy spoiled white kids, with their cars and cel phones, and hanging out at a restaurant with no jobs, bitching and complaining - well, I just want to kill them. These kids deserve their future - nothing.

Bob Zelin



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Dave JohnsonRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 20, 2010 at 2:51:57 pm

[Bob Zelin]
"Many young people today (I see them first hand, so you can't debate this, or say I am wrong -) have no work, yet they have nice cars, nice cel phones, their own apartments, money to go out with, and yet, they are unemployed, or almost unemployed."

[Bob Zelin]
"a bunch of lazy spoiled [ED] kids, with their cars and cel phones, and hanging out at a restaurant with no jobs, bitching and complaining"

[Bob Zelin]
"This is what seperates past generations of lazy people, vs. todays 'Gen Y'. Entitlement."

I would never debate those facts ... of the nearly 4 thousand people at my particular employer's headquarters, at least 50% are those same exact kids you described, but 10 years after you saw them in that restaurant since Daddy, Mommy and/or Uncle Joe has now given them a job telling people like you and I what to do and how to do it. ;~)


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Chris BlairRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 20, 2010 at 2:08:41 am

Bob's reply reminded me of a couple of classic Woody Allen quotes:

"80% of success is showing up"

and perhaps an even better one...when he was criticized for wanting to direct an opera:

"...incompetence has never prevented me from plunging in with enthusiasm."

It's like the people who complain about not knowing how to do something...or about how difficult a piece of software is to learn...when they've actually never tried to learn the task or jumped into trying to learn the software. For me...half the battle to learning ANYTHING is simply taking that first awkward, uncomfortable leap....then floundering around for awhile as you try to NOT drown in confusion, fear or insecurity.

I don't think this is a generational thing...because I see it with guys and girls in their 40s just as much as I see it in college age folks.

Chris Blair
Magnetic Image, Inc.
Evansville, IN
http://www.videomi.com
Read our blog http://www.videomi.com/blog


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Scott SheriffRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 20, 2010 at 2:25:03 am

Your not the only one to feel this way.
Not only does this parallel my experience with a large percentage of Gen Y in production, but a good friend that owns a large, well know film equipment rental biz decided to consolidate his operation. He came in one day, and let every one go and started liquidating the gear, keeping only a few of the larger high value pieces that he could keep track of by himself.
His reason? Gen Y. Not just the young employees, that can't bother to show up for work, but the young customers that routinely damage equipment, can't return it on time, and then have a cavalier attitude because it doesn't belong to them, and "that's what insurance is for".
On the bright side, those few Gen Y types that actually have a work ethic, should do rather well.

Scott Sheriff
Director
SST Digital Media
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com


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Steve WargoRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 25, 2010 at 7:38:08 am

[Scott Sheriff] "Not just the young employees, that can't bother to show up for work, but the young customers that routinely damage equipment, can't return it on time, and then have a cavalier attitude because it doesn't belong to them, and "that's what insurance is for"."

Tell me about it. I had an employee that took some gear to a personal shoot and broke a monopod. He showed it to me and when I asked him how he was going to take care of it, he said "Well, at rental houses, you just throw it on the floor and they take care of it." The nerve!

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
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2-Sony EX-1 HD .

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John CuevasRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 20, 2010 at 2:21:08 pm

1) And the work he was doing made me wonder if he'd actually submitted someone else's stuff in the competition because it was MUCH better than what he was showing me.



This actually happened to me years ago. Producer/slash journalist freelanced for a year on a show we produced. Month afterword, the phone rings, "can you answer some questions about so-and-so, he's applying for an avid editor position" Piqued my interest, in the year he'd worked for us, he never edited on the Avid, just did cuts-only on the linear system. So I asked what videos is he showing you on his demo? And sure enough, they were all things I had cut, his only contribution was he'd voiced them.

Not sure if he kept using my work or not(I didn't have his phone number to ream him out), but he most definitely didn't get that job.

Johnny Cuevas, Editor
http://www.thinkck.com


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Nick GriffinRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 20, 2010 at 2:27:47 pm

Good for you, John! Wish more of these could have that kind of "happy ending."


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Mike CohenRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 20, 2010 at 3:03:27 pm

Speaking of immigrants with unknown legal status, recently I picked up a co-worker at the train station in Brewster, NY. This is a sleepy little Bedford Falls style community at the junction of Rt 84 and Rt 684, about 40 miles outside NYC. I was startled because around 9am the streets are lined with immigrants seeking work doing odd jobs or landscaping on the numerous estates surrounding the town. Later in the day they are all either on the job site or back in their apartments.

Legal or not, these people are willing to work - heck the have to work to pay for their dwellings, food and presumably to send back home to their families.

Mike Cohen


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Shawn MillerRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 20, 2010 at 7:19:14 pm

This is a really interesting discussion. Apparantly, it is also very timely. :-)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/magazine/22Adulthood-t.html?pagewanted=1&...



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Rob GrauertRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 20, 2010 at 7:53:33 pm

We're not all lazy and unreliable. And I live just south of DC if you ever want some help :)

Rob Grauert, Jr.
http://www.robgrauert.com
command-r.tumblr.com


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Glen MontgomeryRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 20, 2010 at 8:15:04 pm

Well I think the one voice missing from this threat is that of a 20 something (albeit in a couple years I'm out of the club). I won't take away anything said so far because I certainly have seen a majority of my young peers who have skated through life and their career opportunities. But I implore you guys not to give up on us as a whole, had that happened I never would have gotten the shot I did and there will be more hungry, driven kids who will not get the chance to prove you wrong. I will admit I was probably hired more out of a cheap rate than talent, but I luckily made due and have to subscribe to the hard work over talent category. Youth has its ego but it also has a fresh perspective that can help in this business when groomed and mentored. I will say a military father helped instill the work ethic and "listen 10 times more than talking" motto that kept me from digging my own grave at work. The thirst for knowledge, that I know many of my cohorts share, is what kept me asking questions and pushing myself as well as the seasoned veterans I worked under. I was able to bring a lot of new workflows and ideas to the table in the digital, tapeless age that pushed our company and those vets in trade for the decades of knowledge they shared with me. It may be that you have to dig into these punks a little deeper or hold them closer to the vest, but please don't give up on us entirely. We may be ignorant, slow, and goof-ups at times, but hopefully we can prove you wrong with passion, drive, and commitment.

Editor / Motion Graphics Artist
http://www.GlenMontgomeryIII.com


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John DavidsonRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 20, 2010 at 9:31:55 pm

I've actually given up on everyone, young and old. See you in Galt's Gulch, Nick!


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Bob ColeRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 21, 2010 at 2:37:07 am

I think the problem is one of expectations. When we were 20-somethings, it took so much effort just to deal with the equipment and the expense. It was hard, but the difficulty had the effect of making us very focused - and it WEEDED OUT anybody who wasn't really committed. With the ease of entry today, the field has attracted people who don't have to work that hard to obtain results. They expect to obtain results without much effort.

No offense intended, but your bad experiences may also have something to do with the kind of work you do (corporate, right?). My niece, a recent Yale grad, is incredibly hard-working - living in NYC, taking a second job in a bakery shop so she can work full-time as an unpaid intern on a bid-deal documentary which will undoubtedly make a splash in the New York Times, etc. when it comes out. Now understand this: my niece LOVES me -- but there is no way she would want to work on my current projects, even for money. I suspect that at least one of the young people you describe might be looking for more glamorous opportunities than corporate video.

On the other hand, maybe you were just unlucky. And guy #3? I want to contact you offline to find out who that is so I can put him on my do-not-call list.

Have you noticed, though? When it's young clients refusing to hire anybody older than they are, it's age discrimination. But when it's mature folks refusing to hire young'uns, it's just exercising good discretion.

Good luck Nick.

Bob C


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Rob GrauertRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 21, 2010 at 7:07:16 am

"With the ease of entry today, the field has attracted people who don't have to work that hard to obtain results. They expect to obtain results without much effort."

Whaaat? No way, man.

Sure, anyone can pick up a pirated version of FCP, but I wouldn't call that entry. I was awarded Best Portfolio when I graduated (but I didn't really have much competition), and it was REALLY hard to find a legit job. I must have sent out close to 150 résumés and cover letters and I can probably count the number of times I've gotten a response on one hand. I eventually got lucky though...real lucky.

Rob Grauert, Jr.
http://www.robgrauert.com
command-r.tumblr.com


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Bob ColeRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 21, 2010 at 9:56:51 am

[Rob Grauert] "
Whaaat? No way, man.

Sure, anyone can pick up a pirated version of FCP, but I wouldn't call that entry."


Rob, you didn't come close to getting the point. I wasn't discussing obtaining a job; I know that it is difficult. I was making the point that the technology involved in making a video today is immeasurably easier than it was 20+ years ago.


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Rob GrauertRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 21, 2010 at 11:52:51 am

"I was making the point that the technology involved in making a video today is immeasurably easier than it was 20+ years ago."

ahh, my mistake. You're right though. Man, I hate working on projects where some kid was hired shoot just because he has an HVX...

Rob Grauert, Jr.
http://www.robgrauert.com
command-r.tumblr.com


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David SikesRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 21, 2010 at 4:02:12 am

Wow.

As a 21-year-old I am INCREDIBLY grateful for this post. I've asked a couple of times on the Cow for a list of "Do's" on how to pursue a career, resume stuff, etc., but this post serves as a humbling and helpful list of "Don'ts".

But, I would be remiss if I didn't say on behalf of my entire generation, "Please don't give up on us!"

Among our classmates at the University of Alabama work-ethic is held in high-esteem. We recently shot a short, and one of our colleagues (who already had a bit of a reputation for a bad attitude: this same student has been known to talk on the phone while professors are teaching and openly mock other students' work) was invited to be our sound mixer. One of his friends in our crew vouched for him.

No-show. Didn't answer phone calls. Didn't even return text messages, not even to his friends who VOUCHED for him!

Needless to say, its doubtful any of us who crewed on that production will be recommending him anytime soon.

I say that to assure you that those with bad attitudes, out-of-control egos, and awful work ethic aren't encouraged to continue that way, even from their fellow 20-something peers. No one likes a bad attitude - period.

- David Sikes


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David JohnsonRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 21, 2010 at 4:37:17 pm

Glen Montgomery, I didn't quote you because my comment refers to your entire post ... very well said. To me, you sound precisely like the type of young person we all wish there were more of. One of my points in my previous post was that, at least in my experience, you are part of the minority group in that regard ... but that's ok ... it's always been that way and it's probably supposed to be that way. So, having to weed through the majority is unavoidable, which makes for a lot of frustration.

By the way, in my opinion, that seems to also apply to the other young guys who have chimed in like David Sikes and Rob Grauert ... just by taking the initiative to intelligently participate in these types of discussions, you seem to show that you're not part of the majority we grumpy old men refer to when we rant about the younger generations' common character flaws.

[Bob Cole] "I think the problem is one of expectations." "With the ease of entry today, the field has attracted people who don't have to work that hard to obtain results. They expect to obtain results without much effort."

Very good point. That's what I was getting at with my "EZ-button generation" comment. In my opinion, this "ease of entry" issue primarily results from technology advances, which are obviously beneficial to all, but also inherently come with this major drawback.

[Bob Cole] "your bad experiences may also have something to do with the kind of work you do (corporate, right?)"

While I understand your point there, I respectfully disagree somewhat. The initial topic refers to things like reliability, work ethic, drive, etc., which in my opinion, are entirely reasonable expectations whether in corporate or Hollywood. I know you weren't referring specifically to my comments, but even so, this is what I mean ... I do work in corporate now, but spent about two-thirds of my total career in the 'real' production world and have found the same issues to be equally prevalent in both. I understand that most don't aspire to work in corporate production, but at the same time, if someone feels a particular assignment is beneath them, perhaps they shouldn't accept it, rather than accept it and not show or show only to do a poor job (the two initial issues).

Personally, the conclusion I drew on this subject long ago is this...
Lack of integrity, work ethic, etc. definitely exists in people of all ages since young people inevitably get older and core character flaws generally don't change much. At the same time, my experience has been that those issues are ever-increasingly more prevalent in younger generations (likely due to that "ease of entry" issue). Even so, I for one by no means have given up on any entire generation or suggest that anyone else do that ... only that we accept that it has always been difficult (and probably will continue to be increasingly difficult) to weed through the majority to find the minority above-average individuals.


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Kris MerkelRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 22, 2010 at 3:30:26 am

The point that should be made to all the Gen "y" or younger, heck, forget about generations. The point to be made for anybody who started reading this thread for Nick's shocking title and for anyone who is concerned with the phenomenon of the thread's subject matter is "Listen to Bob." By having the integrity to show up when you say you will goes miles. And then, do good work by following the example of how hard your employer or clients (for you freelancers) are working.

In this business and many others, we all know that getting work is not really about what you can do, but who your connected to though your friends or professional networks. But, keeping work once you have it is directly related to "what you can do, and HOW you do it."

We all choose our attitudes, and that carries over into our work environments.

As a parent and employer of some Gen "Y's," It is true that I see the entitlement, the lazy-ness, the disrespect ect. more often than I see integrity and strong work ethics, however, it makes the individuals who posses the qualities we are all expecting good kids to have, stand out from the crowd.







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Mark SuszkoRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 23, 2010 at 2:25:32 pm

We've had many interns and student workers over the years, and I've seen variations of "Goofus and Gallant" many times. Definitely saw a few with the "entitlement mentality"; they quit the job within days, sometimes hours, after we had the temerity to ask them to help file some tapes in the tape library. We had one come in expecting to direct live shows on her first day, though she'd never had any practical experience in any production position, as far as we could tell. Another post-grad type bitched daily about the cost of the parking meters. Only later did I learn he was getting a fat stipend the whole time he was getting a college-level Tv production course's worth of training from us for free.

I will say that our best experiences were consistently with the high schoolers and not the college or postgrad students. The high schoolers were somewhat pre-filtered by the program for academic excellence and maturity level and ability to commit, before we got them and generally had to be honor students and go-getters just to qualify for our program. The program also made them lie with house aprents in an exchange-student type arrangement for an entire semester, so for them this was very much like a simulation of their first job and apartment after college, while still only juniors or seniors in high school. Plus, they still had school homework to do every week. I like their energy and inquisitiveness and creativity. In teaching them the ropes, they often ask things that force me to re-appraise what I am teaching them, and question if there are better ways to do something today than what we do out of long-ingrained habit.


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walter biscardiRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 23, 2010 at 2:45:19 pm

[Mark Suszko] "I will say that our best experiences were consistently with the high schoolers and not the college or postgrad students."

We had an incredible 16 year old intern last summer who was introduced to us by our local Apple Store. She was already up to speed on Final Cut Pro and helped out in logging and even digitizing our Foul Water feature documentary. We got her all set up with an internship program through her high school and I would definitely hire her back as soon as she goes through college.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

Blog Twitter Facebook


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Alan LloydRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 26, 2010 at 4:39:23 pm

A long, long time ago, I was partially responsible for bringing a high school intern along. This was more an exception than the norm, we usually had college students.

Anyway, this kid was bright, talented, and focused. He knew more about graphics than I did the day he started, he could shoot, he was willing to do grunt work like schlepping gear through marshes and forests, and he was a nice enough guy that he was great to work with.

He left us after a couple intern years to go off to college, did well there, and did even better after. Kept in touch with him off and on, including recently on his blog.

(I'm also no longer with that employer, I went independent a while ago.)

Now, I'm very pleased to say that I knew Stu Maschwitz way back when.


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Mike CohenRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 26, 2010 at 5:04:01 pm

One of the freelance shooters I sometimes use had Steven Soderberg as an intern. Apparently he made pretty good coffee!


Mike Cohen


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Ian JohnsonRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 24, 2010 at 11:45:35 pm

Is the problem with Gen-Y specifically, or is it just about being 20-something? I wonder if it seems like it's "20 somethings these days" because you are now in a position to be hiring them and be confronted with the problem. Did you have a noticeably better experience hiring Gen-Xers 10 years ago?

I would think that the problem of lazy, entitled youth might be prevalent for any generation born since the 50s, with the growth of a middle class who can afford to pay their children's way through college. Gen-Y isn't the first to be able to graduate from college without needing to hold down a real job along the way.

They might have it better themselves though, when it comes time for them to hire the kids who are just now starting Jr. High during the recession.


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Ronald LindeboomRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 25, 2010 at 12:08:29 am

[Ian Johnson] "I would think that the problem of lazy, entitled youth might be prevalent for any generation born since the 50s, with the growth of a middle class who can afford to pay their children's way through college. Gen-Y isn't the first to be able to graduate from college without needing to hold down a real job along the way."

In my experience, Ian, this seemed to happen with the "but that will hurt their self-esteem, so give them all a trophy and don't keep score" generation raised under psychological insanity of the 1970s and on -- at least here in America where political correctness added itself to the original crazy idea and took it into absolute insanity.

But that is my opinion, and I (for one) do not believe that it's going to get better for them in the days ahead, as the Entitlement Generation is going to have to compete on a world-interconnected stage against the cream of the crop of India, China, Singapore, Malaysia, and a myriad of other countries fighting for their place in the world and who are driven and don't believe the world owes them a living. So, they'll take it. I look at most of the Gen Y'ers I know, and that thought scares me.

I just do not believe for a second that teaching kids to play T-ball and hand 'em all a trophy "because there are no winners or losers, you are all winners" did anything to make the Entitlement Generation ready for the real world. No generation was ever so shielded from reality and fed so much of its own "Kool-Aid of self importance" to drink.

Thankfully, there are a handful of exceptions.

That's my opinion.

Ronald Lindeboom


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Bob ColeRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 25, 2010 at 12:31:21 am

[Ronald Lindeboom] "No generation was ever so shielded from reality"

In a way this reminds me of the old "shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations" adage.

The first generation makes the money; the second spends it; the third has to roll up its shirtsleeves and make their own way in the world.

Perhaps we in the U.S. (and perhaps Europe) are about to see the shift from the second to the third generation.

Painful. But verrrry interesting.

Bob C


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Scott SheriffRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 25, 2010 at 4:58:10 am

I gotta say Ron's opinion seems right on target.
Here is a 'broad brush' painting of what I see.
There seems to be a HUGE sense of entitlement among the younger editors/crew/shooters, etc.
The expression "Pay your dues", and respect is something completely foreign to many. They expect to get the good shift, do the big jobs, with big clients, right out of the box, just because they have a piece of paper. Their entire life has been filled with everyone telling them how special they are, and now they are too good to do the mundane and ordinary, have a short attention span, and are more interested in their iphone than in 'going the extra mile'. They show up to job interviews in shorts and T-shirts, covered with tat's, and piercings, call the boss "dude", and expect us to trust them with our best clients.
Then add the attitude that they know it all, which is nothing new among young people, and you get to where we are.
I saw a post further up the page that had mentioned something about if you put Photoshop, or FCP in your resume', make sure you know it inside and out. Well I have to disagree with that concept, when it comes to the young editors. Certification, knowing every plug-in, and having every keyboard short-cut committed to memory, does not an editor make. If your in the ballpark on skills, but you hit a home run on attitude, your the winner in my book.
That is some of what you learn when your 'paying your dues'. Reliability, problem solving, self reliance, decisiveness, style(your own), patience, and people skills, among other things. You don't learn that from a book, or a course. And you don't learn it overnight.
So what we have now is a glut of folks, that their special because they 'know' FCP, AE, Avid, or whatever expect a high paying gig. They only problem with that expectation, is that there are a million others out there, just like them. It's a buyers market, with a glut of product. And most of the product out there is average, at best. Clients, employers and others know this. Is it any wonder why wages are down?
If this economy keeps going the way it is, the winners won't be the guy with the piece of paper, flashy reel, and a sense of entitlement. It will be the guy that shows up on time, delivers a days worth of work, for a reasonable rate, without all the drama, and shows his boss/client/coworkers some respect. Be that guy, and you will do ok.
I know there folks out there that are going to completely disagree with this, but some day they will be the one writing the checks, and then the light bulb will go on.

Scott Sheriff
Director
SST Digital Media
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com


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Rob GrauertRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 25, 2010 at 2:35:43 pm

"I know there folks out there that are going to completely disagree with this, but some day they will be the one writing the checks, and then the light bulb will go on."

Actually, in my opinion, if they disagree they probably won't get to the point where they're writing check.

It's sort of a double edge sword though. On one hand, the others in their 20s make it hard on me because I'm only 23 and will probably be judged by my age. On the other hand, if I do get an interview, I look that much better because I'm not dumb enough to show up late wearing shorts while I refer to the employer as "dude." LOL, I don't care how much butt wiping mommy did. Who actually thinks that's a good idea?

Rob Grauert, Jr.
http://www.robgrauert.com
command-r.tumblr.com


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Rick TurnersRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 25, 2010 at 7:36:23 pm

In regards to 20-somethings seeming "cocky", thinking that knowing all the programs means endless jobs, of course, they'll find out they are among hundreds of thousands who think the same..

unfortunately, simply walking into a production/post house and "paying your dues" as was the case back in the day is not the case anymore... not only do you have to know it all, you have to be a top notch human, work for free, live on ramen, etc etc.

I'm personally envious of the old industry.. I cant think of a single person who is getting an "apprenticeship" right now.. they dont exists! Hell, the KIDS already KNOW most of it!

You have to admit, 20s are coming into the most competitive time in history.

Sure, in an industry where 50% of high school grads seem to be getting into the video industry, there is bound to be TONS of bad apples.. please.. do not work with them.. find the kids who will die to work in this industry. There are bound to be a few.


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Bob ColeRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 25, 2010 at 8:06:42 pm

Great point about the apprenticeship vacuum. With the disappearance of so many studios, there are fewer opportunities to start with a broom and work your way into the editing room.

[Rick Turners] "find the kids who will die to work in this industry. There are bound to be a few."

Absolutely true. I know two of them, one in NYC, the other in LA. If you need to hire a great young person, contact me. bob-rcole-com.


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Jim BiffleRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 27, 2010 at 9:21:48 pm

I must say this thread has been very enlightening for me. When I started in the industry five years ago as a 20 something I really had no idea what I was in for. I graduated college and didn't realize I had the attitude of "my stuff doesn't stink" until I got my first job in TV two years later. It was only then I realized how much I didn't know and that my degree was merely a license to learn. It became even more apparent when I was hired at the beginning of fourth quarter. I had never touched an Avid or even Photoshop. I had to learn a lot quick and wasn't even sure I was going to last. It was scary because I loved what I did (creative services) and couldn't imagine doing anything else.

Before this job I had spent my entire working career waiting tables, cooking pizza or sacking groceries and I knew I didn't want to go back to that. I was lucky enough to have someone with experience take me under his wing and show me how the industry works and what to do in order to survive.

I learned in not any particular order;
1. Attitudes get you nowhere.
2. Learn something new everyday.
3. Show up.
4. When you think you know it all, you're in trouble.
5. There are a lot of people that know a lot more than you.
6. If you don't know how to do something, ask.
7. Making videos, graphics and such is a cool job but it is still a job that needs to be done in a timely manner.
8. MEET DEADLINES!

That first job was a huge peice of humble pie and I can still taste it even today. That taste keeps me grounded to the fact that I'm very lucky to be working in this industry at all and someone was nice enough to teach me the ropes.

So with that in mind please don't give up on all of us younger folks! Some of us really do want to contribute to the industry and learn from the people that have been in it for a while. That can only make all of us, newbie or experienced pro better in the long run.


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Bob FloodRe: I think I'm done
by on Sep 17, 2010 at 3:18:51 pm

Hi

great thread

no matter how smart a person thinks they are, or what they think they know, they need to remember one thing:

"Be nice to everyone on the way up, cuz you'll see em again on the way down!"

hope this helps

"I like video because its so fast!"

Bob Flood
Greer & Associates, Inc.


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grinner hesterRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 27, 2010 at 10:02:13 pm

lol
"damn whippersnappers, Get off my lawn!"

I hear your frustration, man. The folks you are griping about are the ones that justify our rates though. I love the weed smoking FCP in the basement dudes of the world. They are who I bid against today, not high end ad agencies and production facilities. The 80s are gone. I don't mind. I'm as embarrassed about my old mullets and parachute pants as I am my first demo reel. We've grown, the damn whippersnappers your mad about won't do that for 20 more years.



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Mike danielsRe: I think I'm done
by on Aug 29, 2010 at 3:16:35 pm

How about us older, experienced people??? We're outta work, we're dependable, experienced and very great-full to get the work right now. And there's plenty of us!


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