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fallow up calls or not

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johnsabbath d'urzo
fallow up calls or not
on Jan 25, 2010 at 9:14:02 pm

Had a meeting with a guy 2 weeks ago and this production company is working on a lot of videos with big budgets. The duties include speaking to client for creative and approach for the job and scheduling. He also wants the hired person to do the video, audio, voice recording, creative, client management. I explained this is a job of a small crew at the meeting and not for one person. The timeline is due in 3 months. He is thinking this is going to be a 40 hour week type of job but then he said some 80 hours and he said that they don't pay overtime. Well I said since i will be looking at doing a job with 5 rolls the rate goes higher because I am not just the editor. Gave him a rate and he said he couldn't afford it so i dropped it by a third (i know i shouldn't have gone this low) and he still said no. He is willing to pay 35 per hour. He said he would think about this and get back to me. So I have waited a week and called him, I said that I can be more flex with the rate but cant be the lead guy on this job, and come in as part time if he does end up needing extra hands. But he is only looking for one guy, but i think that he would need extra hands. Also I could not commit to the lead because I have personal stuff to attend to during the second month of production for about 2 weeks. Also he works on a pc and some software that I have never used before, and I'm on a mac with fcp. Looking for some advice on what should I do at this point? should I have been so honest with him? what is the next step?


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David Roth Weiss
Re: fallow up calls or not
on Jan 25, 2010 at 10:02:51 pm

It seems pretty obvious that this potential client is interested in only one thing, and that is "price." Thus, the various concerns and considerations that you, like any pragmatic professional, have tried to alert them to, are utterly meaningless to them.

So, if the project takes twelve months to edit, they will expect you to keep on cutting. And, to them, it makes no difference what the issue might be, even if it's totally due to their incompetence it's no biggie to them, they'll just expect you to compensate.

Is that the kind of client you want to work with, and is that the kind of stuff you want to work on?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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johnsabbath d'urzo
Re: fallow up calls or not
on Jan 25, 2010 at 10:54:23 pm

Have you been in this situation before? Is there a possible win-win situation for both the client and me?



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David Roth Weiss
Re: fallow up calls or not
on Jan 25, 2010 at 11:03:18 pm

[johnsabbath d'urzo] "Is there a possible win-win situation for both the client and me? "

Sure, I've been asked to perform in situations like this for years, but have I ever seen it work out as a win-win? Never! It is always skewed very heavily in favor of the client/grinder, and whether they are ignorant of the reality of the situation, pretending to be ignorant, or they just don't care, the caring professional is always called upon to compensate by donating their time and expertise.

If asked to donate, I'd rather give to a legitimate charity rather than some businessman or woman trying to make an extra buck off of my donated blood and sweat.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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johnsabbath d'urzo
Re: fallow up calls or not
on Jan 25, 2010 at 11:50:26 pm

thanks just wondering, they said they don't pay for overtime and he would like to keep it at a 40 hour week. one day 10 hours the next day 15 but at the end of the week it's 40. Is overtime over 40 hours at the end of the week or beyond the 8 hours per day. thanks for your help, doesn't look like I would do anyone a favour with blood and time. At the same time the market starting to suck out here and there are a lot of grinders, what is one to do?



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David Roth Weiss
Re: fallow up calls or not
on Jan 25, 2010 at 11:59:45 pm

[johnsabbath d'urzo] "Is overtime over 40 hours at the end of the week or beyond the 8 hours per day."

In California overtime is anything over 8-hours, and it's paid at time and a half. After 12-hours it's double time, and so on...

[johnsabbath d'urzo] "the market starting to suck out here and there are a lot of grinders, what is one to do? "

It's a good question, and I think the only good answers are:

1) Try harder, it sometimes works.

2) Consider robbing banks, it's a bit more lucrative.



David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Steve Wargo
Re: fallow up calls or not
on Jan 26, 2010 at 12:12:28 am

If you ditch this guy, something better will come along. Take one day that you were going to spend on this project and GO FIND a paying client.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

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johnsabbath d'urzo
Re: fallow up calls or not
on Jan 26, 2010 at 12:18:26 am

thanks guys i think i would take option 1 try harder and stay away from griders is the new rule for this year.



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cowcowcowcowcow
Ron Lindeboom
Re: fallow up calls or not
on Jan 26, 2010 at 4:33:54 pm

[johnsabbath d'urzo] "thanks guys i think i would take option 1 try harder and stay away from griders is the new rule for this year."

People sometimes say that they can't afford NOT to take the grinder's money because it is better than nothing.

WRONG.

These kinds of situations are double jeopardy: you are kept on the treadmill performing the "Hi, I am a rat on the wire hamster wheel" dance for their amusement and benefit -- while they are COSTING you money. If you are not at a price point that is making you more than sustenance wages, while paying for your equipment, utilities, bookkeeping, marketing and sales expenses, etc., etc. -- you are really LOSING money.

For many years now, we do not accept all of the business that comes our way. We keep the middle, the upper middle and the higher end of the pricing category of our service categories.

We do NOT accept the lower middle or the bottom of our pricing category.

By doing this, we have culled that section of the market that comes to your business toting their very own hamster wheel (which they will give you FREE! so that you can stay busy and tell your spouse and kids that you are doing everything in your power to succeed). And we have far less stress while doing it, as the reality of the low-end is that it's also the part of the market that complains the most and can never be satisfied.

We have had people get really rankled when we tell them that they do not fit our customer profile, and we are not interested in their business. A few readjust their thinking and their actions and step up to the plate and become decent clients -- in playing hardball with them, you have saved them from themselves. But most just get pissed and walk away and tell their friends what an idiot you are. Who cares? Their gossip helps keep me from having to deal with some of their friends later.

I have said this before and I will say it again: if you are always focused on serving grinders, you will be serving them forever, as you will generate self-perpetuating behavior patterns that draw more and more of them to you. I hate to get metaphysical on you, but there is a spiritual law that manifests in the old adage that "birds of a feather, flock together." It's true.

Some people would argue with me when I say that I would rather have a handful of clients than four-times the number of grinders.

My son is a building contractor and as I have told him a few times over the years, "busy isn't always profit."

I know plenty of people that are very busy and yet they make no money.

Hamster wheels are a real drag. The view never changes, and it's always the same couple of muscles getting all the exercise.

There's a lesson in there for non-hamsters.

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom
CEO, CreativeCOW.net

Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint Exupéry


First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
- Gandhi






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Bruce Bennett
Re: fallow up calls or not
on Jan 26, 2010 at 2:11:46 am

Hi johnsabbath d'urzo,

Many of us have already reached this point in our lives and careers. My advice...
If you feel this project will “take you to the next level” then give it 200% in order to learn and advance in your career. If the client is a grinder or somewhat stable client, then do what you can to help them out without sacrificing your business. My golden rule: “Always do what you are passionate about and the money will follow.”

Best of Luck,

Bruce Bennett
Bennett Marketing & Media Production, LLC

Creative Inspiration
Documentaries for those who love to create … and to be inspired.




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Jason Jenkins
Re: fallow up calls or not
on Jan 27, 2010 at 12:15:22 am

[Bruce Bennett] "Always do what you are passionate about and the money will follow."

Thanks, Bruce. I needed to hear that!

Jason Jenkins

Flowmotion Media

Video production... with style!


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David Roth Weiss
Re: fallow up calls or not
on Jan 27, 2010 at 12:19:55 am

[Bruce Bennett] "Always do what you are passionate about and the money will follow."

And, I suppose Santa, the Easter bunny, and the tooth fairy are real too?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Richard Herd
Re: fallow up calls or not
on Jan 27, 2010 at 12:19:38 am

Just had to mention the found art in this thread, via the type-o.

fallow 1 |ˈfalō|
adjective
(of farmland) plowed and harrowed but left unsown for a period in order to restore its fertility as part of a crop rotation or to avoid surplus production : incentives for farmers to let the land lie fallow in order to reduce grain surpluses.
• figurative inactive : long fallow periods when nothing seems to happen.


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Milton Hockman
Re: fallow up calls or not
on Mar 19, 2010 at 7:15:23 pm

Sounds to me like this guy is looking for a "fool," not that you are one. by the way you describe he wants "everything" for "nothing" and those are the worst clients/bosses to have.

but think about this....35/hr..is really only 20/hr after taxes. and for all that work??? its robbery man, plain robbery.

i'd run from this gig.

Freelancer Designer Virginia
Find out more about me, see my portfolio, and read my blog

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