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3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you

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David Roth Weiss
3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 29, 2009 at 9:03:35 pm

See the article below, and get started learning 3D production now...

http://hdguru.com/directv-to-launch-a-3d-channel-hd-guru-exclusive/1201/

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Jason Jenkins
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 5:11:15 pm

I think it will flop until the technology doesn't require the special glasses.

Jason Jenkins

Flowmotion Media

Video production... with style!


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Mark Raudonis
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 6:27:20 pm

I disagree. Have you seen AVATAR in 3D? Mr. Cameron has broken new ground in
moving the "cinema experience" forward. (even with glasses)

There's just too much interest from too many players in making this work.

Mark



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Ron Lindeboom
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 7:38:59 pm

[Mark Raudonis] "There's just too much interest from too many players in making this work."

I couldn't agree more, Mark.

We only have a few 3D movies in our home collection and they require the red-blue anaglyph glasses (which James Cameron's AVATAR does not use, eschewing them for the much more effective and beautiful Real-D system). When we show even the home version of red-blue anaglyph 3D to our guests, every one of them has been so impressed that they start buying their own 3D movies. I have yet to see it fail.

Once you see the fabulous Real-D system in action, or see something in 3D at an IMAX showing, there is no going back.

As Brian Gardner said in his article for Creative COW's Stereoscopic 3D issue, "One day we will look back at regular movies and call them 'flatties.'"

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom

Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint Exupéry


First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
- Gandhi






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walter biscardi
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 7:42:04 pm

[Ron Lindeboom] "Once you see the fabulous Real-D system in action, or see something in 3D at an IMAX showing, there is no going back."

We saw the Toy Story double feature in Real 3D at a local theater and what struck us was the depth of field. I appreciate the fact that Pixar didn't just try to "poke us in the eyes." They just used the depth of field to move a lot of things backwards making the screen essentially the window looking in on the 3D world.

Amazing.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
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Ron Lindeboom
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 8:00:30 pm

My initial reaction to James Cameron's AVATAR was that he purposely underplayed the 3D, and that there were only a few things that "came out at you" -- such as ashes settling from a fire scene -- and they were subtle, not poking you in the eyes. In fact, as we left the theater, I heard a few people remark that they actually tried to brush them away as their brain reacted to the images.

As of today, I think that AVATAR is the best example of how to use 3D that has been done so far.

But that's just my opinion.

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom

Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint Exupéry


First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
- Gandhi






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Richard Herd
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 8:44:26 pm

The over the shoulder shots were amazing.

Guy in foreground in front of the screen and soft focus.
Subject on the screen in sharp focus.
Background objects behind the screen in soft focus.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 9:25:28 pm

[Ron Lindeboom] "I think that AVATAR is the best example of how to use 3D that has been done so far. "

I think there's no doubt about it, the 3D motion tracking Cameron did sets it apart from anything done before. It's literally perfectly executed.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Todd Terry
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 7:55:15 pm

[Ron Lindeboom] "Once you see the fabulous Real-D system in action... there is no going back."

Well, I dunno if I'm a lone wolf here... I'll admit that it's pretty amazing stuff, but still the "RealD" system drives my brain crazy. I've only seen a few, but have not been able to enjoy any of them. The last RealD movie we saw was the fantastic "Up," but after 20 minutes of it I was searching through my pockets trying to find something with which to fashion a crude eyepatch (which fortunately, I found something). After that, enjoyed the rest of the movie immensely... albeit in one-eyed "pirate mode."

If my better half insists on seeing the 3D version of another of these, I will try to get two pairs of glasses in advance so I can cannibalize them and create one pair both with the same eye.

It screws with my brain, gives me headaches. Maybe it's because I spend half of my waking hours with one peeper glued to an eyepiece. But it's not for me.


T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






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Ron Lindeboom
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 8:04:28 pm

Yes, I have heard a couple of people say that they cannot abide 3D movies because their brain can't abide it without giving them a headache. The old red-blue anaglyph glasses were most often a headache, now with systems like Real-D, the headaches are mostly gone. But there are indeed exceptions. I am sorry that you are one of them, Todd.

But we all know that in the future, 3D will come from holographic projectors and that we won't need glasses anymore.

Now that will be breathtaking.

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom

Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint Exupéry


First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
- Gandhi






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Jason Jenkins
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 9:16:01 pm

[Ron Lindeboom] "But we all know that in the future, 3D will come from holographic projectors and that we won't need glasses anymore."

That's what I've been imagining in my brain for a long time. I don't know if I've seen anything with the Real-D system, but tonight I'm going to see Avatar, so we'll see how it goes.

Jason Jenkins

Flowmotion Media

Video production... with style!


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Jason Jenkins
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 9:11:03 pm

[Mark Raudonis] "I disagree. Have you seen AVATAR in 3D?"

I haven't, but maybe I'll be convinced when I see it tonight.

Jason Jenkins

Flowmotion Media

Video production... with style!


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Jason Jenkins
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 31, 2009 at 5:54:56 am

Well, got a babysitter and went to the theater with my hot date (wife); Avatar was sold out...

Jason Jenkins

Flowmotion Media

Video production... with style!


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David Roth Weiss
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 6:53:13 pm

[Jason Jenkins] "I think it will flop until the technology doesn't require the special glasses. "

I would suspect that starting up the new 3D channel and sending up the satellite capable of doing it was a decision that was most likely conceived by corporate types who disagree with you.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Mark Suszko
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 9:13:37 pm

We've had a 4DTV sat receiver for years now:-)(that's a brand name though, and nothing to do with stereoscopic vision)

We just saw Avatar in 3-d yesterday, (you can read more of my review in the film section), it blew my mind and will forever change the course of film making, yes, but I will say I don't really want or need to watch *everything* on TV in 3-D. Some of the more "spectacle" type films, heavy in special effects, or where the added dimension really adds to the story, ok. And some sports, I guess, but not all of them, all the time. It might become popular for porn, I suppose, then again, the expense of the technology may not fit the profit margins of that business.

I kind of reserve 3d for "appointment television", the stuff that's out of the ordinary and a true "occasion". SOme movies I really WANT to see in a theater, Lord Of The Rings, Star Wars, Iron Man, Kurosawa's RAN, stuff like that... but many others, particulalrly comedies, I am okay waiting to see on DVD on a small screen. I'm trying not to make myself sound like a Luddite, this is maybe not so much the same as not wanting to shift from B&W to color, for years during the transition we had the two available at the same time, and the color TV was nice, but the stories didn't really depend on it. Same as a B&W movie doesn't depend on color to be good, B&W even becomes a specialized genre' like Noir. I suppose when more directors get the hang of incorporating the 3-d as a true story element, like Cameron did, it may catch on more. But if you use it just as a gimmick, "Bwana Devil"/"Doctor Tongue" style, it is not ever going to break into mass appeal, IMO.

But do I need to see "30 Rock" in 3-D to enjoy it, or would I enjoy it MORE in 3-D? I don't think so.

Now, if I buy a disk of Avatar, I would always want to see that in 3-D, one reason being that is how Cameron envisioned it. Same as not wanting to see pan-and-scan versions of Cinemascope films on TV. But I don't see the death of 2-d any time soon, not till they perfect affordable holographic TV sets without the need for glasses.


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Jason Jenkins
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 9:19:13 pm

[Mark Suszko] "But I don't see the death of 2-d any time soon, not till they perfect affordable holographic TV sets without the need for glasses."

I'll second that!

Jason Jenkins

Flowmotion Media

Video production... with style!


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maurice jansen
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 9:56:46 pm

hi there

first i'm not conservative and really open for new things.
actually our company did a few stereo production several years ago.
imagine this 2 BTS LDK14's and 2 BCN's where used on our first production and succesfull. ;-)

BUT do you want to see this all night long and can you use it for every genre/program.
I guess not.
feature films YES but what about sport.(where you have limited control of your DOF and framing). not even talking about news(i guess we don't want so much reality some time's).
what i mean to say is what makes a channel a good channel.
i guess it's programming.
News, sports, entertainment & films on the right time.
only the last are suitable for stereo such a big investment in stereo for say 30% of your program's is not economical.

stereo in the theater/cinema yes.
stereo at home whatching VOD or a Blu-ray (or what ever) yes.
broadcast channel no.

for broadcast i have a stronger feel for the HighVision project of NHK
filling the human field of view with the resolution / resolving power of the eye.

greet
Maurice





People saying they don't make mistake's often make nothing at all!


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Mark Nancetor
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 9:43:24 pm

[Mark Suszko] "I don't really want or need to watch *everything* on TV in 3-D. It might become popular for porn, I suppose."

That's a scary thought, Mark. I don't even want to go there.

Ron will probably turn off our accounts if we did. I hit the send button before I was done.

Mark Nancetor


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Ron Lindeboom
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 9:57:39 pm

[Mark Nancetor] "Ron will probably turn off our accounts if we did."

I would probably throw you onto moderation again (most I wouldn't turn off completely) because we have teachers and professors from around the world -- from the junior high level to universities and trade schools and art academies -- that use Creative COW as a key part of their curriculum.

These instructors trust that we will provide the kind of site and content that they can build their curriculum around. We guard that trust like junkyard dogs.


Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom

Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint Exupéry


First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
- Gandhi






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Mark Suszko
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 10:43:25 pm

Yeah, we really don't need to go there, though it is a fact that that industry has had a huge effect on what tech is adopted by the mainstream, (VHS over Betamax comes to mind) and has a history of pioneering the online interactive video technologies we now use and take for granted in the real world.

To pretend they and their market don't exist, or that technology doesn't migrate back and forth across that border, would be folly, though we're certainly not trying to glorify or play them up them here. Let's leave it at that.

To stay more on track though, it remains a fact that this is a significant investment in technology, and whatever your business is, there's a cost/benefit curve you have to try to fit your operation and market to. If you jump into 3D for the wrong reasons and make wrong assumptions about the taste and pocketbooks of your audience, you could lose your shirt. (That's a euphamism.)

But I could be wrong, I suppose. Some day likely everything will be 3-D, just as now most people here insist you should shoot everything in HD and that SD is dead or dying. Of course, they say betacam is dead too, and they don't build new decks for it any more, but I still get dub orders for it almost every week:-)

I really think that 3D is just another tool in the artist's arsenal. Orson Welles was sort of 3-D director, in the way he used deep-focus shooting to make the whole image more like what you would see in a stage play; then like the stage director he was, he would use various camera and lighting and editing tricks as well as actor movement and positioning, to direct your attention around this deep-focus scene in the way he wanted you to look at it.

Cameron does something like this in Avatar as well. But will all tv productions go to the trouble of hiring that great of a director? On regualr deadlines and budgets? Cameron took a decade or so developing this movie and its technology, it was his pet project of a lifetime, something he'd been thinking of since his teens. That level of effort makes it special, unique.

When you start applying the 3-d tool in more pedestrian ways, is it really going to make a dog food commercial that much better? Or Crazy Larry's used landspeeders? Or Mokie-Coke sports drink? Or the evening news? Or the Tonight Show?

Somehow I doubt it. But the broadcast mix of 3d and 2d are going to fight for space ont he air, no question. I just don't know who wins in that deal... even if we do.


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Mark Suszko
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 30, 2009 at 11:01:08 pm

I am reminded by this speculative discussion of a short book Harlan Ellison wrote under his pen name of Cordwainer Bird, called "The Starcrossed". Would make a great little comedy movie today, someone should option it.

It was science fiction comedy, based not-so-loosely on his real experiences making a very ill-fated and badly-managed TV sci fi series called "The Starlost". I remember watching it as a kid; it starred Kier Dullea from "2001".

Long story short, his real-life experience on the show was Job- like, the biblical Job, I mean. The book transports his experiences to a future LA where 3-d TV technology is at about the same point where color TV was vs. black and white in the early 60's. A network needs a breakout popular new "flagship" network show, designed from the beginning to be done as 3-d and make the most of the new medium, to drag audiences into wanting more 3D programming and buy 3D sets. The writer in the book comes up with an SF re-telling of Romeo and Juliet, but in space. The rest, well, you're just going to have to find an old copy of the book and enjoy it.

In that future LA, California has given up trying to stop smog, and instead, just adds a perfume scent to it, so your daily traffic report also tells you what the weather will smell like on your drive home.... and tall skyscrapers are fitted with emergency rockets that launch them into the ocean if a big earthquake is about to hit.



I love Harlan.....

Do you remember an ABC mini-series about 3-D TV, starring Jim Belushi and Bebe Newurth, called "Wild Palms"? or did I just dream that one up?


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eric pautsch
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 31, 2009 at 4:50:13 am

I think Hollywood needs to work on character development and a decent script before it moves ons. Avatar was the same story told countless times before. I think its sad that such a great film maker is now putting his efforts into a gimmick like 3D. The technical aspects are amazing but thats not why I go see a film.

Ground breaking?! For reals?! District 9...now that was a compelling story...effects and gimmicks should be secondary.

http://www.avatarsucks.com/



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Mike Cohen
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 31, 2009 at 4:28:11 pm

The danger of 3D is that, like CGI, Blair Witch Project and the like, there will soon be too many producers creating 3D content, ranging from terrible throwaway movies to Avatar clones to the few Avatar quality pictures. Yes, it comes down to talent. And as we know, talent means many things in Hollywood and in the real world. Just because there are going to be 3D tv channels and lots more 3D theaters does not mean everything should be in 3D - but it seems some of the folks making programming in new formats don't get this.

But any time a movie makes zillions of dollars, a slew of copycats are made - mostly of bad SyFy channel quality or worse. I guess there are people who like such things or they would not keep getting made.

But the cream always rises to the top. Let's hope Jim Cameron releases another masterpiece, probably around 2019.

As for 3D in the home, I agree that there is a use for 3D. As it is now, looking at our local weather guy in HD is plenty of realism for me - seeing his nose hairs and tweed jacket in 3D would be a bit much. I cannot think of any broadcast shows that would be better in 3D. You can't just do it for the sake of doing it. Let me repeat for the Hollywood producers who might Google 3D public opinion - don't do 3D just to do 3D - do it for a reason.

Now on the other hand, if Angelina Jolie were to appear in 3D in my living room, possibly with the television turned off, that would be worth the price of admission.

Mike Cohen


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David Roth Weiss
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 31, 2009 at 6:25:13 pm

[Mike Cohen] "I cannot think of any broadcast shows that would be better in 3D."

If you mean show like Law and Order 3D I might agree, however here are some major areas of commercial broadcast TV that will greatly benefit from 3D:

1) Sports
2) Travel
3) Science
4) Cartoons
5) Nature
6) Medical (that's your subject)


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Ron Lindeboom
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 31, 2009 at 6:34:41 pm

[Mike Cohen] "I cannot think of any broadcast shows that would be better in 3D."

Me, I would have loved to see shows like PUSHING DAISIES, LOST or HEROES in 3D.

Or at least an episode here or there.

But we are still a way's off from that happening, I think.

Ron Lindeboom


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Mike Cohen
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Dec 31, 2009 at 6:50:34 pm

I was going to suggest Lost in 3D - I think what producers of new 3D need to understand is the selective 3D as Cameron has nicely demonstrated. Only put things in 3D if they add to the story or make the scene better. Like those computer displays in the Avatar command center and the helicopter cockpits.

But sitcoms, Law and Order style shows and heaven forbid Reality Shows are just fine in 2D.

As for medical, 3D has been used for 10 years in the DaVinci robotic surgical devices. It is pretty stunning, and helps surgeons operate on beating hearts. There have been a few 3D presentations on large screens at medical conferences over the years. We actually did a 3D medical video in 1995 - everyone in the audience needed a pair of Crystal Eyes.

Cooking shows might be cool in 3D. "Everyday Italian" and "Good Eats" come to mind. Walter, better get your 3D rig up and running.

Mike Cohen


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Mark Raudonis
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Jan 1, 2010 at 12:14:24 am

[eric pautsch] "I think its sad that such a great film maker is now putting his efforts into a gimmick like 3D."

Puhleeze! It's so much easier to criticize than to create. Let us know when you've got something even remotely comparable to Avatar to look at... and then we'll take cheap shots at you.

Mark





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David Roth Weiss
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Jan 1, 2010 at 12:44:26 am

[eric pautsch] "I think its sad that such a great film maker is now putting his efforts into a gimmick like 3D."

Have you seen it Eric?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Richard Herd
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Jan 1, 2010 at 1:55:19 am

We're all entitled to our opinion of course.

My opinion is "your premise is foolish" when you infer the script was less than decent. I would argue there are really only three dramatic situations:
-- Individual v. Individual;
-- Individual v. Society;
-- Individual v. Nature.

Gimmick? Again, my opinion is "your familiarity of historical artifices" is lacking context. Consider "Hamlet" for example. The main draw was some kind of effect that made the ghost appear scary, probably with mirrors, so other actors could walk through it, but we don't actually know the technique because it was lost to the ages; recall also The Globe was played during daylight.

The point being the big three of narrative (artifice, character, and action) have always been around and will always be around. Calling the artifice a gimmick is just plain... well, gimmicky criticism.


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Richard Herd
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Jan 1, 2010 at 1:44:32 am

[Mark Suszko] "I really think that 3D is just another tool in the artist's arsenal."

YEP!


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David Roth Weiss
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Jan 1, 2010 at 1:58:17 am

[Richard Herd] "[Mark Suszko] "I really think that 3D is just another tool in the artist's arsenal."

YEP! "


NOPE!!! That's a mixed metaphor...

Arsenals don't contain tools -- tool sheds do & toolboxes do, but arsenals contain guns and ammo.


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Christopher Wright
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Jan 1, 2010 at 2:34:43 am

"But the cream always rises to the top"

If that were only true in the real world.
In the writing world, music world, and especially "Hollyworld"
I'm afraid it is the rare exception rather than the "rule."

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Ron Lindeboom
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Jan 1, 2010 at 2:51:15 am

[David Roth Weiss] "Arsenals don't contain tools -- tool sheds do & toolboxes do, but arsenals contain guns and ammo."

Oh come now, David.

Gun is just another word for a tool to help you get the unwilling to quickly back your play. Another word for a gun, might be a "motivational lead dispenser." Or perhaps an "inter-personal doubt rearrangement device."

(You do know I am kidding, right? But I just couldn't pass that one up.)

Ron Lindeboom


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David Roth Weiss
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Jan 1, 2010 at 3:02:07 am

[Ron Lindeboom] "Gun is just another word for a tool to help you get the unwilling to quickly back your play. "

Well, I think Mark really meant to say, "3D is just another weapon in the filmmaker's arsenal," but I like your "motivational lead dispenser" so much that I'm willing to forgive him for his improper mixology. He was probably drinking already when he wrote that one anyway.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Mark Suszko
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Jan 1, 2010 at 3:41:20 am

Naw, I only drink grown-up drinks about once a year and this wasn't it, but i WAS in a hurry typing while making luau preparations for tonight, sorry for the clumsy prose.

If we can take a step back off the ledge and ditch "The poetics" and a bunch of arcana and subjectivity for a minute, I just want to point out how unique Cameron's system really is, and why I think that is important.

In his setup, the mocap and performance happens first, pretty much simultaneousl., as actors play out a scene in real time. A low-level 3d world is generated around them right then, viewable on screens, not unlike the "video village" of a typical high end film shoot today.

And here's the brilliant bit, after a bit more rendering, Cameron becomes his own D.P., flying a virtual camera thru the already-performed scene, picking the angles AFTER the performance. Do you see how breakthrough this is?

Prior to this, you would have shot multi-cam coverage and been stuck with whatever viewpoints the physical cameras could capture, even if the actors turned to a bad angle for that camera. Your edit would have to put aside art to just fix the mechanics of presenting that scene cleanly, of hiding the break. I know I have often thrown away excellent shots, perfect performances, during an edit, just because they would not match for continuity. And no matter how talented the actors, you can't expect perfectly identical takes every time from human beings. Just getting the coverage you wanted between tight and wide and medium was a crapshoot up till this system. You might have had to have the actors go thru the scene many, many times to capture it right for just one good take. Cameron's system means you have infinite camera placement control at all times, within each take. Even before the EDIT, you've sculpted a perfect performance of perfect takes and perfect angles. Truly, this is perhaps as close as one can come to making a film that is *exactly* what the director envisioned in his head. If I WAS a drinker, I'd be hoisting a Mai Tai to Cameron for that alone. That is the revolutionary part of the technology for me, not so much the stereoscopic aspect.

Story wise, I have to say that while it is not a horribly novel plot, and while it had numerous holes and hand-waving in it, and some flawed character logic, it still succeeded in moving me, in manipulating my emotions and making me think and feel what the director and writer wanted me to think and feel, to identify with made-up characters and story as if it were real, and fuse with it for those 2 hours. Whenever I've tried to explain to my folks what my fascination for this business was about, this is the thing I tried to communicate to them, without much success. It's beyond mind control, beyond simple propaganda. Beyond making a sale or closing a deal. It's maybe a cousin to what a teacher feels when the student finally lights up and "gets it", or when a preacher sees a convert cross a decision point and commit to a new way of living. Or when a street magician fools you with the ball and cups even after "showing" you how the trick works and giving away the location.




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eric pautsch
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Jan 2, 2010 at 11:52:32 pm

I can criticize any filmmaker I pay to see. If anyone wants to criticized my work, they are free to do so. I call 3D a gimmick since it, in no way, promotes the story itself. If Avatar wasn't a 3D film, where would the hype come from? I think its hard to argue that its the only reason it got me, and many others, into the theater. His 3D work was amazing! My brain actually thought I was floating above the trees at points, bringing a sense of vertigo. I thought that was incredible. But, in the end, it was just Fern Gully meets Dances With Wolves. C'mon! This man made great films like The Abyss, Terminator and Aliens- great original screenplays! You bet I'm going to judge his work on the past.

Let pretend the 3D thing never happened...was Avatar a great film? An original story? Should we judge a film these days on how good the SFX are?

I'll eat my words if Avatar joins Hamlet as one of the great classic stories in human history. :)



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Ron Lindeboom
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Jan 3, 2010 at 1:52:10 am

[eric pautsch] "I call 3D a gimmick since it, in no way, promotes the story itself."

Spoken like someone who cheered against all the hub-bub when "talkies" came along. I can just hear it now: "What's all the noise about? I don't need all that noise to see the story... Besides, it's not very realistic and all that hissing and clicking just drives me nuts!"

;o)

No offense, Eric, but in my humble opinion, Avatar would have been a GREAT movie and film experience without the 3D but it is made even more intense by the fact that it is in 3D.


[eric pautsch] "If Avatar wasn't a 3D film, where would the hype come from?"

James Cameron has done MORE to alter the human psyche against atrocities like that which happen whenever one group of humans think that they should have something that belongs to another group, just because they are savages or less refined than we are -- than all of the efforts of documentary filmmakers and storytellers who have tried to alter the human psyche in this area.

All their efforts just got trumped by all the "hype" of a 3D movie called AVATAR.

I wish I could make a pile of crap like that.

Don't you?

Ron Lindeboom


PS: [eric pautsch] also said: "I'll eat my words if Avatar joins Hamlet as one of the great classic stories in human history. :)"

Boy, using this as our benchmark, I can't think of a single film born of an original story/screenplay that didn't exist before it became a film that was made in the last 50 years or more that is likely to stand up to that test. Not one. Not even Citizen Kane.



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Mike Cohen
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Jan 3, 2010 at 3:11:40 am

Interestingly, most of the articles and tv coverage of Avatar that I have seen have ignored the 3D aspect. Most focus on the motion capture and face capture technology, the political overtones, the environmental overtones and the visuals.

It is actually amazing the number of Avatar related posts around the COW this past week. I could not search the archives as far back as 1977, but presumably Star Wars had a lot of chatter on the COW back in the day too ;)

Mike Cohen



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Richard Herd
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Jan 5, 2010 at 8:24:16 pm

You don't make a billion dollars and then disappear from the literary canon. Would you like egg on your words?

Moreover, Hamlet isn't classic. It's Renaissance. :-)


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walter biscardi
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Jan 5, 2010 at 8:33:09 pm

[eric pautsch] "I'll eat my words if Avatar joins Hamlet as one of the great classic stories in human history. :)"

Avatar is Pocahontas in 3D. Basic, predictable story set in an incredible 3D world. Nice 3D and SFX, but little attention paid to the storyline.

Did it earn a lot of money? Yep. Is it a masterpiece? For artwork, sure. For story, nope. I have to say SpongeBob Squarepants the Movie had about as equally predictable a storyline as Avatar. Although I have to give a nod to Spongebob for "riding the Haselhoff" and the great voice work of Alec Baldwin.

Sure we can critique a film or any other creative works. In fact we have people who get paid to do this. They're called Critics of all things. I don't think you'll have to worry about eating your words anytime soon. It may go down as a "landmark 3D effort" or "landmark 3D film" but I don't think it will go down as "classic cinema."

Heck I think Pixar demonstrated what a 3D film is all about with the Toy Story releases earlier this year. Those were flat out amazing and with great storylines too.



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Ron Lindeboom
Re: 3D TV is on its way to a satellite near you
on Jan 6, 2010 at 6:13:11 pm

I had to chuckle this morning as I swung by Yahoo.com to see the latest box office on AVATAR.

$351,114,898 so far.

I don't think that James Cameron cares one twit about his critics or who thinks his story is simplistic or trite.

As I said somewhere else: Cameron has already done more to affect the psyche of future generations (regarding tragedies such as happened in North America, Africe, Australia and elsewhere when indigenous peoples were eradicated) than all of the documentary filmmakers and authors that have addressed the subject heretofore.

Using these two yardsticks to measure what is success or not, I think I can see why Cameron is going to laugh all the way to the bank in the face of his critics.

Man, I'd like to fail like him when I grow up.

Ron Lindeboom


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