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help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras

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dave morganhelp for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
by on Jan 24, 2008 at 8:26:57 pm



help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
I always find myself wondering what i should charge for a certain project.
i have a possible music live concert that will be 4 hours long.

for 2 hours i have been charging 600.00 for a 2 Camera shoot using sony HD v1u's
people tell me thats really low.

when i film live shows i do make sure that the venu/artist is responsible for the audio. that they then give to me on a CD.

here is a link to 2 live videos i have made. so that might help judge pricing
any input would be greatly appreciated

http://www.morganvisual.com/Livevideos

thanks

dave


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Brian MillsRe: help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
by on Jan 24, 2008 at 9:31:57 pm

I too try to walk that tightrope between charging low enough to get the job but high enough to make a living, but you really are charging too low, especially for a 2 camera shoot/edit.

For a 4 hour event, you need to charge a full day rate for yourself and the other camera operator because with setup/takedown you will be there for at least 5 hours. Then you need to charge a rental fee for your gear.

This is the part I see a lot of guys missing: if you spend thousands of dollars buying and maintaining equipment and then charge only operator rates, you are working for your gear instead of having your gear work for you.

So, the minimum camera operator full day rate in my area is $400 (and can go up to $650). Rental on a simple DV/HDV gear package is minimum $150 (up to $300). So, just to shoot it, you're looking at least $1100 + tapestock fees. (You pocket $700 and pay the other guy $400). Don't get a PA to shoot it at PA rates unless you/your client don't care how it looks in the end. I tell clients all the time they can go to Craigslist all they want, but they will get what they pay for.

Again, this is the minimum (for Las Vegas, your area may be slightly different)and you should try to negotiate for more than this, but at least you have a benchmark from where to begin. And those prices are super-fair, so if the client balks, then run away, you don't need them.

Now, since you are also technically directing the shoot as well, you are entitled to charge more than just an operator rate, and well you should (I personally would tack on another $400 or so).

Now, for editing, prices are much more flexible. If you are editing at home on your gear at your leisure, set a price you can live with. Make sure to allot at least 3 days to digitize/edit a 2 camera/4 hour concert. Specify how many copies they will get in the end, and charge for extra copies.

I hope this helps. Good luck...

Brian Mills
Videographer


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Mick HaenslerRe: help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
by on Jan 25, 2008 at 1:26:06 pm

Are you doing a live switch or do you have to do a multicam edit in post?

Mick Haensler
Higher Ground Media



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dave morganRe: help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
by on Jan 25, 2008 at 2:33:34 pm

hey im doing a multi cam in the edit. thanks



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Mick HaenslerRe: help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
by on Jan 25, 2008 at 3:07:40 pm

[dave morgan] "for 2 hours i have been charging 600.00 for a 2 Camera shoot using sony HD v1u's
people tell me thats really low."


Does this include editing and delivery of a final product? and if so, how long is the final product? Are we talking one or two songs or the entire 2 hours?





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dave morganRe: help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
by on Jan 25, 2008 at 3:32:38 pm

well before this post, it did include editing and delivery of a final product,

i am going to up the prices.



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walter biscardiRe: help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
by on Jan 25, 2008 at 3:21:48 pm

[dave morgan] "for 2 hours i have been charging 600.00 for a 2 Camera shoot using sony HD v1u's
people tell me thats really low."


That's beyond low actually, especially if that includes the edit. Most camera operators I know make a minimum $500/day with a camera and more likely $750/day with a camera. Then for editing you should be charging at least $500 on top of that.



Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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Mick HaenslerRe: help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
by on Jan 25, 2008 at 3:54:12 pm

[dave morgan] "any input would be greatly appreciated"

Here's the thing Dave, and I'll try to be kind. From the examples you linked to I can honestly say you are charging what the product is worth. If you would like input on how to improve your product so you can charge more, I will be happy to oblige. I've done multi camera productions for The Beach Boys, Jeff Foxworthy, and The Lt Dan Band(Gary Sinise), as well as more local and regional events than I care to think about. I don't mind sharing what I know.

Mick Haensler
Higher Ground Media





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dave morganRe: help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
by on Jan 25, 2008 at 5:01:11 pm

yea ok. how can i improve?



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dave morganRe: help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
by on Jan 25, 2008 at 5:13:33 pm

also if you are right. then for a 4 hour event it would be a minimum of 1200.00.









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cowcowcowcowcow
Mick HaenslerRe: help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
by on Jan 25, 2008 at 5:44:35 pm

Great. And thanks for not getting offended.

- It looks like you're going for that shaky handheld look which is fine. But the constant zooming in and out is a bit much. There is just way to much cam movement for my taste.

- Dutch angles are great as a quick go to, but shouldn't be used as a standard shot, also try not to cut to them until the angle has been achieved. On numerous occassions, the cam op looked like he was in the process of finding his shot.

- I would seriously invest in a third camera to be used as a static wide. There were times when neither cam had a decent shot. A static wide is a great way to insure you always have something. Also you and your other camera are free to iris up or down when the lighting changes

- Invest in some two way headsets so the cam ops can communicate. That way one can tell the other to "stay on shot while I move", bettering your chance of having something decent all the time. Eartec sells a decent kit for around $300. You can orchestrate your shots much better this way.

- Make sure when you're cutting that you cut dead on the beat. 2-3 frames either way can make your edit look sloppy and unprofessional.

- Know what you're shooting. Attend band rehearsals, know the songs inside and out. Know who will be doing what and plan accordingly. A few days before a show, I would get a songlist from the band and listen to those songs over and over again until they're ingrained in you.

These are just a few things I can think of off the top of my head. But most importantly, work on you camera skills. Practice holding the camera on a subject while moving. I have a shooter who can handhold on a sidestep and you'd swear he was using a Steadicam. Thanks for being open to some suggestions and good luck.

Mick Haensler
Higher Ground Media




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dave morganRe: help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
by on Jan 25, 2008 at 7:55:22 pm

thank you. that helps a lot.



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Scott WhitneyRe: help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
by on Jan 25, 2008 at 11:25:24 pm

Dave,

One other item...and this is simply a heads up and meant with good intentions. On your "About Us" tab on your site, you have a typo...instead of "We use professional Sony HD cameras" you have "We us professional Sony HD cameras."

I just thought it might be helpful information. Those things are easy to get by...even when we've proofed our copy a half dozen times!

Best of luck,
Scott
__________________________________________________

Scott Whitney
Bright Circle, Inc.
Orlando, Fl.
"We put the Idea in Media"
http://www.brightcircleinc.com

View Scott Whitney's profile on LinkedIn



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dave morganRe: help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
by on Jan 25, 2008 at 11:26:59 pm

thanks



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Mick HaenslerRe: help for pricing on live concert 4 hours 2 cameras
by on Jan 26, 2008 at 12:15:17 am

[dave morgan] "thank you. that helps a lot"

No problem. If you need anything else you can email me directly. My address is in my profile. I don't know much, but live multi-cams on a shoestring I do know.

Mick Haensler
Higher Ground Media





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