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another bid lost...what's wrong

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greg
another bid lost...what's wrong
by
on Mar 15, 2007 at 5:37:53 pm

I was asked to bid on project by a local company... They told me is would be a 2 day shoot and 2 day edit. Then they sent me their script. The script indicated there would be 6 locations within a 60 mile radius where we would interview a total 12-16 different execs, clients, and employees.

Past experience suggests that this would easily be a 3-day shoot. In my proposal i told them it looked more like 3 days of shooting and editing. I have done corporate video for about 25 years, and often you schedule an exec for a shoot, they are late, or postpone it. Of course the client came back to me and said we were way over the price of the other companies that were sending them quotes. The main issue was the extra days of shooting and editing.

So I re-submitted, following their two days of shooting and editing. But I also added this in the proposal "This proposal assumes 2 days of shooting and two days of editing. Should the amount of days change because of client or location schedules, our rates will change accordingly."

I also added that "Client must cancel with at least 48 hours notice in order to avoid charges"

They rejected our proposal saying that they were unconfortable with these kind of stipulations.
Apparently the client used to be a GM of a production company. My total shooting estimate was $3,700. That included 2 days of shooting, and 1 day of pre-production. Pretty cheap right?

Was I wrong putting in these stipulations? Any thoughts?





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Nick Griffin
Re: another bid lost...what's wrong
on Mar 15, 2007 at 9:26:52 pm

Greg -
Why do you assume that you've done something wrong? Sounds more like you dodged an almost guaranteed grinder bullet. ESPECIALLY if the client has production experience and should know that 6 locations in 2 days is a bit extreme for anything more than "gun and run," existing lighting shooting. And even then -- 6 locations in 20 working hours?

I think you made the right call and the only difference I would suggest is having all the language presented up front, in the contract. When they perceived you as laying the groundwork for the additional work you'd already said it would take, they got scared. Frankly I think it's a given that if their people cause a delay it's their problem, not yours so I wouldn't even have contract language to that effect.

If this had not been an obvious grinder the best sales approach would be to help them "evaluate" all of their production options. Give them the feeling that you want to do everything possible to help them get the most out of their show and their budget. Once you've built up trust it's a whole lot easier for them to be talked into extra days. But c'mon! 12 to 16 people spread over 6 locations in 2 days?? They better hope that whoever they get to do this doesn't get anywhere near any Kryptonite.


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Tim Kolb
Re: another bid lost...what's wrong
on Mar 15, 2007 at 10:12:43 pm

[Nick Griffin] "They better hope that whoever they get to do this doesn't get anywhere near any Kryptonite."


...or any "Smart Pills."

TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net


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Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
Re: another bid lost...what's wrong
on Mar 15, 2007 at 11:12:12 pm

You did nothing wrong.

You're dirt cheap and your stipulations were very reasonable.

This was not a client you'd have wanted.

Be glad you DIDN'T get the job.


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Greg
Re: Thanks guys
by
on Mar 16, 2007 at 2:30:17 pm

Thanks to all of you for your support. I feel better already. Have a great weekend ya'll!


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Mark Suszko
Re: Thanks guys
on Mar 16, 2007 at 2:38:36 pm

Totally unrealistic proposal. Best thing would be to send them to your worst enemy.


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Steve Wargo
Sorry...
on Mar 18, 2007 at 8:10:20 am

Sorry I got here so late in the game. Actually, it was me that underbid you. I am hiring two student from a local film school to do the job for me. They will use a GL2 for the shoot and lights from Home depot. Camera mics will do just fine and, Oh, by the way, we'll be using one pass tapes that we degaused. The kids will edit on a laptop and it will look really peachy keen. It will look perfect because they just completed a workshop on color correction so when they shoot with the wrong filter, they will be able to fix it in post. And I understand that they just purchased Sound Soap to take out the problem audio noise, just like they do on CSI.

See Ron's literature on "Grinders".

Have a nice day - not working for nothing for those jerks.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona

It's a dry heat!


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MHancock (promoboy)
Re: Sorry...
on Mar 19, 2007 at 1:38:48 pm

You may have underbid him by hiring college students, Steve, but I'm going to underbid you by hiring no one--I'll do it for FREE so I can have the experience and something to show on my demo reel. Plus, they said they were going to tell all their friends and family about it and they'll make sure I get credit, so I'm sure the phone is going to be ringing off the hook. I'll be swamped! Then, after a few more clients to earn "experience", I won't need anymore experience and I'll be working in the big time, charging like 15 bucks an hour. I'll be loaded. Money falling from my pocket. Now, time to look for film jobs on craigslist that offer a production credit and a free sandwich. A man has gotta eat, you know.

:-)

Mike.


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Steve Wargo
Re: Sorry...
on Mar 20, 2007 at 6:36:57 am

Darn! There goes a quick $38, right down the tubes. Crapola

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona

It's a dry heat!


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Ron Lindeboom
Re: Sorry...
on Mar 20, 2007 at 12:35:10 pm


[Steve Wargo] "Darn! There goes a quick $38, right down the tubes."

$38????? Were you the high bidder?

Ron


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Tim Kolb
Re: Sorry...
on Mar 21, 2007 at 12:24:38 am

[Ron Lindeboom] "[Steve Wargo] "Darn! There goes a quick $38, right down the tubes."

$38????? Were you the high bidder?"


No...that's what CineAlta guys are going for these days...highway robbery ain't it?





TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net


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Steve Wargo
Re: Sorry...
on Mar 23, 2007 at 8:29:03 am

Tim

DO NOT tell my clients! Please.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona

It's a dry heat!


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Peter Ralph
Re: another bid lost...what's wrong
on Mar 21, 2007 at 4:00:48 pm

I would have left out all the penalty/punishment clauses. They are unnecessary and threaten an adversarial relationship, rather than a collaborative one. Did you suggest that the product could be produced at half the price if all the talent was bought to the same location?

Did you show them samples of the type of production they can get at different price points? There is place for cheap video the same as cheap cars. Not all companies looking for cheap video are fools or grinders.

Last year Seth Godin gave his "all marketers are liars" talk to a bunch of Google employees. A video was made and posted online I doubt they paid anything for it - not that the camerawork was so bad but I am sure any pro videographer would have used 2 cams or added the slides in post:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6909078385965257294










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Greg
Re: Peter
by
on Mar 23, 2007 at 2:08:53 am



I think there's danger with a client who "thinks" they know video because they were an exec in a production company. There was no chance to get everyone to one location, as they wanted everyone shot intheir actual environment. So no way to lower the price.

They didn't need samples, they had a script. As a matter of fact, their first request included that they would just rent our Betacam, mic, and lights and shoot it themselves.

I'm pretty pleased that they went elsewhere. This had bad client written all over it.


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Bruce Bennett in Madison, WI
Re: another bid lost...what's wrong
on Mar 23, 2007 at 6:03:14 am

I find this thread very interesting and somewhat disturbing. I have a few thoughts/opinions that I would like to share. I don


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Steve Wargo
Re: another bid lost...what's wrong
on Mar 23, 2007 at 8:32:13 am

Can we have a contest on the 8 asterisks? I would put my answer here but I don't know if "assholes" is inappropriate.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona

It's a dry heat!


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