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Audition synch problems

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Lorenzo
Audition synch problems
on Aug 13, 2005 at 6:40:22 pm

Hi,

I'm using Audition on my PC with a M-Audio USB Audiophile sound card. I'experiencing all sorts of synch problems between recording and playback. Couldn't find any known bug reference on the web, thus I imagine I have messed up with my settings somehow.

Here are "sample" problems :

- First of all, I can't use my platform in full duplex mode. The sound card reads and records, but the playbacked track(s) sounds at a higher pitch, unusable. I suspected a resolution problem, so I aligned all settings (including the sound card) to 16 bits resolution. Not solved...

- As a workaround, I tried to ping-pong with a 4 tracks tape recorder (tascam MK2). When I transfer audio originnaly recorded on the 4 tracks to Audition, the result sounds good at first glance BUT, if I try to do it track by track, the tracks are "de-synchronized". It sounds natural, but in fact, it all seems like the original track hase been slightly timestretched. I tried to timestretch the next track, but result sounds poor and is not synched back. As one might guess, it all ends up in a mess...

I am tired of slicing down each track to rebuild original synchro...and apart from that, I love Audition's simplicity so I want to try anything possible before giving up and switching to Cubase (yeurk !)

Thanks for help

LAurent



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willie toth
Re: Audition synch problems
on Aug 14, 2005 at 2:03:14 am



At this point I would try to reinstall the sound card and Audition ... Are you recording with a sample rate of 44100? I have had some weird things happen when using a higher sample rate ... Did you try recording through the computers sound card? I have never experienced a problem like you are having, I wish I can be of more help ......... WILLIE


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Lorenzo
Re: Audition synch problems
on Aug 14, 2005 at 8:27:40 am

Thanks for the advices.

Meanwhile, I have tried to work things around, and your intuition was good: it seems like I have a sample rate problem. Actually, the sound card supports up to 48k. So if I stick to 44.1 whith Audition, I get a pitched-up playback.

I tried to set Audition to 48k, and the playback pitch is now OK. However, I still cannot hear the track I'm recording (and I don't own an expensive multiple busses console to manage this !), and I hear pops and crackling in newly 48k recorded tracks, which is the only problem I had not experienced until then ! ;-)

Another strange thing : In the Device order window, I keep changing the order and (EV) preference, but it does not record my choice. When I close the window and reopen it, it still pops up with Audiophile USB SPDIF as a default choice (I'm working with analogs in/out), and moreover, it put the Audiophile USB (the standard analog I/O I'm currently using) in the Disabled table ! and the strange thing is : it works ok anyway , like if Audition had made some "swapping" between SPDIF and Analog gear, but only for the names ! - by the way, this is the same sound card, external, in a box with analog and SPDIf connections.

Thanks for your help,

Laurent





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willie toth
Re: Audition synch problems
on Aug 14, 2005 at 1:19:58 pm

Lorenzo,

I would stick with the 44100 while recording in Audition, I think this is why you are getting clicks and pops in your tracks ... If you try to write music to CD at 4800 you may have some problems ... If you are using the audio for sound track on video you will be able to set your program prefrences to render all audio at 4800 ... There is a lot of pros and cons about recording at a higher sample rate but from what I have experienced your gain is very little for the problems that can arise and the bottom line is that you have to resample it when you want to record it to CD or DVD media ... You may want to use the REWIRE feature to cure your EV problem ... You can do this by going into the OPTIONS WINDOW > DEVICE PROPERTIES > REWIRE on the session side ... It may or may not help but it is worth the effort ... The rewire may cure your playback problem as well ... What is your hardware configuration for playback? Have you set the playback and record options on the tracks themselves? You do this by clicking on the IN and OUT buttons on the left side of each track ...... WILLIE


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Lorenzo
Re: Audition synch problems
on Aug 14, 2005 at 5:07:58 pm

Once again, thanks for your help Willie...

1) the pops and cracks were eyesterday's prtoblem: I juste restarted the whole thing (including the PC) => problem solved. It now records in 48k or 44.1 without noises.

2) The point is : if I stick to 44.1, I get a high pitched playback ONLY while recording new tracks. If the whole session is 48, no problem. And again, this might be a (somewhat strange) limitation of the sound card itself, which does not seem to deal correctly with lower rates sampling. My conclusion is that Audition records at 48 because the sound card acts like a "master" and "tellls" it to do so, but as the playback is 44.1, it tries to render it at a higher resolution... but I'm not a specialsit, this is only logical thinking !

3) I will try tour "rewire" thing. I'm not at my workstation now, so I can't check it out, but I'm not sure I have this feature. Are you sure this is not a v 1.5 add on (I'm on Audition 1.0) ?

4) Playback options on the tracks seem correct although I don't use the BUS feature, I just route all output to the same "Audiphile USB" device, asusming the card allows multi-tracks monitoring. Should I use different buses (in my view, I should do so only for specific FX setups)

5) My hardware config for playback is :

The PC ==> the external Audiophile sound card through USB port ==> analog outputs to, alternately, a Behringer 6 tracks mixing desk or the Tascam 4 tracks depending on my needs.

The recording config :
The mixing desk OR the Tascam ==> analog inputs of the sound card ==> the PC.

Pretty simple, I guess ! I dont' use MIDI or SPDIF I/O which might cause collateral problems. I really tend to think this whole thing is a "dialog" problem between the card (which works OK with other softs) and Audition (which works fine, even with the cheapest standard PC internal sound card !)

I will investigate further issues and post results if I finally get it working.

Thanks again (and by the way : I'm basically a musician, spending extra time solving technical problems really bugs me !)

Bye



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willie toth
Re: Audition synch problems
on Aug 14, 2005 at 7:44:28 pm



Sounds like you are heading down the right road ... Remember you need to mixdown to 44100 to write to CD ... I would suggest spending the money for the upgrade I don't think it's more than 40 or 50 bucks and it's worth it ... I am a musician first as well, but had to learn all this stuff to keep things going ...... WILLIE


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Lorenzo
Re: Audition synch problems
on Aug 15, 2005 at 4:41:21 pm

OK, so now for all interested readers, here's the status :

1- Working with an M-Audio Audiophile USB makes it *mandatory* to work in 48khz session. Actually, that is the only way to get the playback correctly pitched. Sounds strange, but it is *reality checked* !

2 - Transfering tracks to an analog tape recorder, add additional tracks recorded on the tape recorder, then back to Audition and hoping it will naturally synchronize with the original playback is just hopeless : simply forget about it (or send me the solution !). I tried every possible option like Acurate sample synch and alike, nothing works, either in 44 or 48k.

3 - To work properly, you definitely needs an external bussing system which allows you to separate what needs to be playbacked from what needs to be recorded : the card internal bus itself does not allow you to record and hear outcoming playback at the same time. Believe my word, I have tried ! this might sound obvious to experienced people, but for beginners like me it is definitely not (I found my way out of it using strange cabling through a bypassed rack guitar effect, a TC electronics G-major in my case !). Unorthodox, but it works...

and once again, thanks for your time Willie. ;-)

Laurent



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willie toth
Re: Audition synch problems
on Aug 16, 2005 at 1:20:43 pm



First off there isn't any way you are going to get a consumer grade tape matched up with a digital recording, been there done that bought the T-shirt myself ... It has to do with the mechanical aspects of your analog deck ... Can't you just use the audio out from your computers sound card to use as playback? You should be able to set it up by clicking on the out button on the side of the tracks on the session side ........... WILLIE


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Lorenzo
Re: Audition synch problems
on Aug 16, 2005 at 4:59:33 pm

Yeah, you're right. Although I (wrongly) assumed that a TASCAM machine was somewhat properly aligned...

and yes, I use the card output for playback, which works OK as long as I'm not recording at the same time (in that case, the incoming recording track is "muted". And yes, the card has full duplex capability).

I got a 1.5 trial version today, so I'll try and see if things get any better.

Bye.


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