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Rob
Size of site cod to use and database
by
on Jan 23, 2007 at 6:29:10 am

I need a cart that can handle 10 to 20 thousand shoppers at a time?
any limits as far as php and MySql db. As for the Server I'll get one just for this client anyway.. I could use coldfusion or ASP.. I would rather build than buy.

Also any good Hosting you can recommend?

Thanks, Rob


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Curtis Thompson
Re: Size of site cod to use and database
on Jan 23, 2007 at 3:56:04 pm

hello...

[Rob] "I need a cart that can handle 10 to 20 thousand shoppers at a time?"

before i pass any judgement - is this an existing traffic load that you know you will have or is it level of traffic that you'd like to have someday but that you will be growing into?

if that's existing traffic that you know you'll have, then you're beyond the level of a simple isp - 2 things there will be your downfall in a simple hosting plan:

1. simultaneous db connections - mysql defaults to 100, and even products like oracle typically take a 1000 or so per db instance (although box speed and query type impact that number greatly). so with 20k people per minute, that's a lot of sql connections. while they all don't have a constant open connection to the db by any means, opening and closing db connections is an expensive process, so there is a decent chance for performance problems with your average hosting plan db offering (see below for more)

2. bandwidth - just raw numbers here, but let's assume that each of your 20k visitors looks at 3 pages per minute. this is a random number, but let's go with it - and let's assume that each page has 25kb of uncached material that it contains - this means (and i'm using 1 hour a day just to assume that you won't have 20k shoppers per minute every minute of every day):

- 75Kb * 20,000 requests per minute = 1,500,000Kb per minute of file transfer
- 1,500,000 * 60 * 1 * 30 = 2,700,000,000Kb per month
- 2,700,000,000Kb ~= 2,500Gb per month

and your average isp hosting plan will max out at around 500Gb in bandwidth per month offerings. so with that kind of traffic, you'd be talking a customized network.

---

so with these numbers in mind, mysql could certainly support this kind of traffic, but you'd have to have mirrored servers and load balancing and a very custom network and server setup to make it all happen...

but if those are numbers you are aspiring to, then certainly while you grow, mysql and your average hosting plan can work. search our archives for hosting solutions that we've recommended in the past, although if you want to grow to these type of numbers, a bigger place like verio might be a good bet for you...

hope that helps!

sitruc


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Rob
Re: Size of site cod to use and database
by
on Jan 23, 2007 at 9:21:46 pm

It's for a national infomercial and prime time promotion. Including a high profile cable show and major sporting event. Bottom line is I don't know.

What I do know is, 100 max will not do it...
It's going to be all about the site and the cart. So if the Server goes down. My Clients will not be happy. So I'm trying to plan ahead for these events..

I need solutions and this is a start. Thanks


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Curtis Thompson
Re: Size of site cod to use and database
on Jan 23, 2007 at 10:30:10 pm

hello...

[Rob] "What I do know is, 100 max will not do it.."

well - 2 things on this:

1. 100 is configurable, although basic hosting plans won't let you configure that
2. 100 does not mean that any more than 100 people at a time and your site crashes - mysql will queue requests as best as possible, and properly-coded sites will make small quick queries, meaning that they will only be in for a few milliseconds at most. this means that thousands of people could be hitting your site at one time and it would still be fine...

you can also consider having your code use a persistant connection, meaning that the major overhead of opening a connection, verifying the connector and closing the connection only happens once - that saves a lot of time in larger sites as well...

bottom line is if you anticipate a large crowd, then by all means plan for that. get a dedicated server and a programmer who knows how to write that kind of site. certainly doable, though, and i would probably start with someone like verio - you will pay more, but they will be up and have the bandwidth to take it...

sitruc


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Rob
Re: Size of site cod to use and database
by
on Jan 23, 2007 at 10:49:58 pm

Yes, I looked at this Hosting, no problem verio dedicated Server would be fine.

* Dual 3.0 GHz Intel Xeon
* RAID Mirrored SCSI
* 2 GB RAM
* 146 GB Disk Space
* 2 TB data transfer
* Unlimited POP accounts
* Multiple Podcast Channels

I have a basic cart now that I used in the past. PHP and MySql the max simultaneous db connections was 75. This cart does not look professional and so I'm not going to use it... I'll take a look at what they offer also. But I would rather have something that I can use and not pay for every install and monthly use.

I would pay once to get it but after that I want to apply and use it as I need with full access to code and no branding.. any suggestions..

Rob


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Curtis Thompson
Re: Size of site cod to use and database
on Jan 23, 2007 at 10:56:48 pm

hello...

[Rob] "I would pay once to get it but after that I want to apply and use it as I need with full access to code and no branding.. any suggestions.."

depends on your coding experience and budget - there are endless options out there for cart technology, which range from free all the way up to thousands of dollars...

a free one that is good but requires programming knowledge to do just about any customization to is oscommerce. miva is a rock-solid cart system that is a one-time license, but it is also a bit harder to customize unless you know what you're doing...but if you want a cart system that can handle the load, either of these should be good fits.

also check with verio if you are going wth them - they have ecommerce plans with cart software already on there, although i think their choice is miva. but you get a better license deal if that's the case. but before you get into miva, ask for a demo. like i said - very powerful, but not the most intuitive interface to maintain...

sitruc


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Rob
Re: Size of site cod to use and database
by
on Jan 24, 2007 at 1:06:54 am

Curtis what's the differences between FreeBSD and Lynx?
Verio only has FreeBSD managed servers.

Thanks Rob


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Rob
Re: Size of site cod to use and database
by
on Jan 24, 2007 at 2:48:53 am

That would be "Linux".
What's the differences between FreeBSD and "Linux".

I use Apache, MySql, PHP, Server pack on Wxp pro to develop most of my sites locally.
Any issues with that? Also doing Google on this but got to ask you.
Sorry to bug ya Curtis, But you are the man! : )

Thanks Rob


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Curtis Thompson
Re: Size of site cod to use and database
on Jan 24, 2007 at 3:10:02 am

hello...

freebsd and linux are both flavors of unix - the former was developed out of u.c. berkeley and the latter by a man named linus torvalds. both are very reliable variants and the differences wouldn't ever really be noticable unless you are a real unix enthusiast...

(and don't worry that a bunch of college kids and a guy invented these - they are both open source and under continual development and used by a very decent chunk of the biggest companies in the world - you can't go wrong with either one)

if you are getting a dedicated server, be forewarned that unix will at most have a control panel on the web interface to do some basic things, but that any tweaks additional installs, etc. would be done via shell (aka command) access. some dedicated servers come with support, but some they'll just give you the box and you'll be expected to set it up...

i much prefer *nix (the generic term for all unix-based systems) to windows for serving, but you can build very reliable windows servers as well, so it would somewhat be your preference as to a route to go...but do check with the isp ahead of time to find out who is expected to maintain and upgrade your account - if it's you and you're not comfortable with dos-esque command interfaces, you would need to line up a temp sysadmin for your project...

(and i keep noting things - but note that when i say maintain and support - it should be running out of the box, but for example if you got a fancy shopping cart that required a php library that you didn't have, that php library would have to be compiled into the php code base, and that would be something that a unix-saavy person would typically do)

sitruc


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