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Recording to vMix

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clyde villegas
Recording to vMix
on Nov 22, 2019 at 10:39:57 pm

Hello friends!

First question:
Would you use vMix to record video for straight delivery to client (not for further editing)? How about for an intermediary format for further editing, would you record to vMix?

My thoughts on the setup is having a Decklink card to capture from four cameras straight to a PC instead of having to purchase a video switcher and recorder separately.

Second question:
I've seen a couple of vendors using a dedicated switcher (like the Atem and Roland) and then using vMix to stream and kept wondering why they wouldn't just use vMix to switch the cameras and stream at the same time. That would save them money. What do you think?

Thanks in advance!

ut in omnibus glorificetur Deus


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Steve Kownacki
Re: Recording to vMix
on Nov 23, 2019 at 3:51:18 am

I'm a Wirecast user, and do use the ISO recording for exactly what you want to do. Obviously you need a robust computer and I suggest a RAID drive if you're recording more than 3 cameras. I typically use ProRes and it looks great.

Yes, if all you are doing is streaming the switched show, then vmix alone is enough. But, they might be using the ATEM if they are also doing IMAG/Projection. I don't think vmix (wirecast surely can't) can provide low latency switching and the lag on the screen is an issue. So possible setups might be:
1) ATEM switcher with mix out to projection and vmix for encoding (with or without vmix adding other graphics, videos, titles, etc for the remote audience)
2) ATEM switcher to projection, AND all the sources looped to vmix where ISO recording is done and a separate show can be switched for the remote audience (This is more my typical setup)
3) Maybe they don't know something like Xkeys, Streamdeck or other interfaces make for easier switching on vmix and they're using the atem in an old-school way because of the typical switcher panel.

My big concern is always how much trust you are putting in one box. If the one computer goes down, you are literally left with nothing - no projection, no streaming, no recording. THAT"S SCARY. That's why I use backups to the backups. Like an Odyssey 7 recorder (that's also a switcher) to also add another level of ISO recording.

Always comes down to budget, but you have to let the customer know the risk.

Steve





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clyde villegas
Re: Recording to vMix
on Nov 26, 2019 at 1:34:29 am

Thank you, Steve! This is very informative.

In your option 2, how do you connect the camera to both Atem and vMix? Do you use a splitter to send each camera signal source to both Atem and vmix? Or does the Atem have a loop-out for each camera?

Also, I have a Magewell HDMI to USB3.0 capture device. What's the difference between that and a capture card that inserts directly to the motherboard's PCIexpress slot? Is video captured in the same format and quality?

ut in omnibus glorificetur Deus


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Steve Kownacki
Re: Recording to vMix
on Nov 26, 2019 at 2:12:29 am

For option 2, yes you split them - the correct term is Distribution Amp or DA. You can't just use a "t" type connector. And you need one for each source. I doubt the ATEM has loops, that's how they keep gear inexpensive these days.

The magewell is a great product, but you can get a card that has 4 inputs and won't put overhead on your usb flows. The quality of the recordings will be the same.

How many sources are you talking about? How good does the video really need to be? 4K is great, but if your audience will predominantly watch live on mobile, and even watch edited versions of that on mobile, or rarely full-screen, 1080 is going to be fine. Meaning don't make your computer work so hard to do ISO record, stream, switch, add graphics, etc. Get a 4 channel recorder like the Odyssey, it's very reliable, to record the ISO cameras.

Here was my setup a few weeks ago - https://bit.ly/2rq1kUe 3 cameras DA'd to DataVideo switcher & Odyssey recorder. Output of switcher to Atomos recorder and Wirecast laptop. The stream only needed a bug logo, countdown screens and occasional title. No projection. I could have done it all in Wirecast, but this let me do old-school switching & recording. I know this laptop was not robust enough to handle streaming and recording.

Steve





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clyde villegas
Re: Recording to vMix
on Nov 29, 2019 at 8:52:43 am

Thanks Steve !

About the distribution amp, is this the correct one to use:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1123526-REG/kanexpro_sp_hd1x24k_4k_h...

We need the recording to be good enough for uploading to Youtube. 1080p recording is good enough for us. I want it to look like any other videos that we shoot and record in-camera, edited, and then uploaded to Youtube.

I saw your setup and it looks cool. Do you have the automix engaged on your digital mixer?

ut in omnibus glorificetur Deus


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Steve Kownacki
Re: Recording to vMix
on Nov 29, 2019 at 5:00:08 pm

I have not used that particular KanexPro DA, but many of their other products and very happy with the performance. I'll I can say is to get one and try it out before using on a real gig. The quality will be fine as it's passing the signal from the camera chip and not any encoded format. Your recording on vmix or other recorder will most likely be in ProRes not h.264 so will actually be higher resolution than your camera recording.

Did not use automix on this one as I had a bit of a new audio op who wasn't familiar enough with it. Not to mention we had about 5 minutes to get these folks on stage and wired up, so no time for a sound check to get things dialed in. The room sounded pretty good and the op was good with riding faders. We also record multitrack audio on the mixer so we have each individual channel to play with in post.

Steve





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