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avid mc, boris red 3 - an external photoshop file - interlace jitter

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alius sato
avid mc, boris red 3 - an external photoshop file - interlace jitter
on Mar 4, 2009 at 6:14:29 am

i'm experiencing quite a weird interlace-jitter issue:

a PSD, if imported straight to avid as a matte key, looks ok:
avid matte key

if i put a boris effect on the track, then import the same PSD as the content of a 3d track, i get garbage:
same psd via boris red

the problem only shows up if i use the "highest quality" video setting on avid (green button), but it DOES exist in exported quicktimes as well.

i noticed the problem first on a 23.976pA dvcpro50 project (that on avid is 30i), but now that i've played with it it seems that the problem persists across different project types.

i'm on a pc MC 3.0 - the images above are screen grabs of avid's full-screen playback with the "prt sc" function. ignore the squares, they're on the alpha channel that the two apps handle differently.

i'd really like to use boris on this project as i need complex moving graphics, but...


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peter mcauley
Re: avid mc, boris red 3 - an external photoshop file - interlace jitter
on Mar 4, 2009 at 3:43:28 pm

Hi,

It's unclear to me whether you are pulling the media into RED from the desktop or from an Avid bin but either way, here's something to try. Go to the RED 3 preferences window (edit>preferences) and click on the import media tab. Set the Interpret Field Order to "None" and see if that solves the problem for you.

Cheers,

Peter.



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alius sato
Re: avid mc, boris red 3 - an external photoshop file - interlace jitter
on Mar 4, 2009 at 10:04:34 pm

just to clarify - i'm pulling video tracks off of the avid timeline, but adding overlay graphics that come from the desktop as .psd files.

no - the settings you refer to don't seem to remedy this. i have played with them quite a bit, and they seem to have no effect.

besides, the import setting is separate for still image files & movies - & the still image one doesn't have interlacing / field interpretation options - yet the problem is most noticeable on imported graphics with text as per my sample images (that, when resized to this page don't show it as clearly as they do in their native size).



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William Busby
Re: avid mc, boris red 3 - an external photoshop file - interlace jitter
on Mar 5, 2009 at 3:17:38 am

If I were you I wouldn't be importing graphics with text, and I'd build the complete graphic in Red using to import the original media files PLUS use Vector Text in Boris for the titles. Much cleaner & wouldn't have the problem I see here.



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alius sato
Re: avid mc, boris red 3 - an external photoshop file - interlace jitter
on Mar 5, 2009 at 4:17:58 am

william - i concur /w you in principle & would do so if the workflow/schedule with graphics coming from a 3rd party source would so permit.

however, what i'm experiencing is not a matter of slight deterioration that would be caused by pixel-source-graphics/type, it's severe wreack-havoc type of thing that is caused by something else. just to confirm, i just created a title in boris and tried that too - same exact problem persists.

another thing that i've probably failed to mention earlier- the damage is only visible when the footage is actually playing. if the playhead is parked all appears good.



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alius sato
Re: avid mc, boris red 3 - an external photoshop file - interlace jitter
on Mar 5, 2009 at 5:02:56 am

hey william - i concur, that's what i'd do if it wasn't for the graphics templates coming as flat .TIF from a 3rd party graphics house.

but that's not even the point, the problem i'm experiencing is beyond slight deterioration of pixel-generated type.

just for the kicks, i just did a version where the text came from borisRed's vector type - i see the same exact issue.

one thing that i may not have mentioned earlier - if the playhead is stopped, the type appears fine on the still frame - it only falls apart when playing the footage.



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William Busby
Re: avid mc, boris red 3 - an external photoshop file - interlace jitter
on Mar 5, 2009 at 7:36:09 am

Sounds like field reversal or something. Did you try what Peter suggested?



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alius sato
Re: avid mc, boris red 3 - an external photoshop file - interlace jitter
on Mar 5, 2009 at 2:28:40 pm

i did try what peter suggested. no jive.

the other interesting thing i've found out now is that this problem does not appear on a PAL 25i project. which reminds me that most projects where i've used boris red extensively in the past were PAL, so i wouldn't have necessarily ran into this before.



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peter mcauley
Re: avid mc, boris red 3 - an external photoshop file - interlace jitter
on Mar 5, 2009 at 2:50:26 pm

I just noticed that you mention using RED 3 ... have you tried this with RED 4? It may be a problem with RED 3 and Avid MC 3 - sometimes Avid makes changes to the AVX code and when that happens sometimes we can wind up with field reversal problems. I'd like to suggest downloading the latest trial version of RED 4 to see if that helps remedy the situation.

Cheers,

Peter.



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alius sato
Re: avid mc, boris red 3 - an external photoshop file - interlace jitter
on Mar 6, 2009 at 4:27:16 am

oops - i misremembered, the boris red on the system is version 4.03.



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peter mcauley
Re: avid mc, boris red 3 - an external photoshop file - interlace jitter
on Mar 6, 2009 at 12:26:18 pm

And what happens if you render the file using the RED standalone render engine? Is it free of the jitter that you are seeing when using RED as a plug-in to the MC?

Thanks,

Peter.



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alius sato
Re: avid mc, boris red 3 - an external photoshop file - interlace jitter
on Mar 8, 2009 at 3:24:41 am

excellent point, peter.

the media rendered straight out of red is pristine. (using qt-animation, highest quality settings, 1-2-1 deflicker tick-box.) so something is amiss in how red talks to the avid.

also it seems that avid's 60i rendering doesn't have the same problem, like PAL didn't. but unfortunately i don't know of a way to create a 60i SD project.



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alius sato
Re: avid mc, boris red 3 - an external photoshop file - interlace jitter
on Mar 8, 2009 at 4:24:23 pm

hey peter - following your suggestion from earlier, i've now downloaded the latest trial. it fixes the problem.

many thanks for the pointers - let's consider this thread closed with a successful conclusion.



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