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aisurf
Liquid 7 configuration & newbie
on Dec 20, 2005 at 5:18:27 am

To Mark Harvey or anyone who can help,

Hi Mark I read your review of Liquid 7 and was very impressed. You said you take questions from the novice because everyone starts there - so here I am.

I am brand new to this editing game and slowly climbing the learning curve. I am entering this arena because I want to be able to produce a series of instructional cooking videos for my wifes business. I purchased a Dell pentium D 840 (3.2 GHz) dual core system with 2GB ram, Serial ATA RAID dual 250 GB drives, (DVI/VGA/TV-out)nVidia GeForce 6800, 16X DVD-ROM and 16X DTD+/-RW, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS, XP Professional system. However, as I enter into this task I see that other configurations or hardware may be necessary.

Questions:

Obviously I am not producing a motion picture or something that needs super special effects. I do want something that looks professional enough for resale - has some graphics, titles, dvd menu's, sound track, voice over's. In your opinion do I need Liquid 7 or would Studio 10 do the trick?

If liquid 7 is your choice - what other hardware do I need to make it run successfully on my system? Do you have any suggestions on how I should proceed in getting my system set up correctly and climbing the learning curve? I use this system as a business computer as well - any thoughts on setup configuration under these conditions and software conflicts if I am running it for both editing and regular email, word processing etc? I have seen several sites that sell tutorials - any suggestions?

Also, any last thought on Adobe Premier Pro vs Liquid. I keep gravitating back to Liquid. Which do you prefer?

Thanks so much for any guidance - I value your opinion.

Sincerely,

Ron





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mark harvey
Re: Liquid 7 configuration & newbie
on Dec 20, 2005 at 7:15:59 pm

Ron,
Of course I don't mind answering questions, that is what I try to do here....that said there is a forum for Liquid, unfortunately is under the name of Pinnacle Liquid Edition....Ask questions over there next time, but for this one I'll try to answer here.

Your machine should definately be up to specs. I see you have 2 drives in a RAID setup...what type of RAID striping are you using ??? I use RAID 0, but I am not too bothered about backups as I can always redigitaze my footage if needed. Also, is it that it for drives ??? I like to have a system drive for all of my software, then capture drives for the media. Better performance.

I do not see too many conflicts with doing more than editing on your system, that said, there are some precautions you should take. First....Antivirus... DO NOT use Norton, Mcafee or any of those big commercial names...they will suck the juice out of your system and you will more than likely have conflicts. I like thge AVG free edition, does a great job, it's free and plays nicely with Liquid. Also, try to use your computer as little as possible for internet usage. Spyware can really slow a computer down. It would be almost worth picking up a cheap Celeron for these duties, but if you have to use your "big machine" be careful.

I really do not know Studio so I can not comment on it. I like Liquid...it is extremely scaleable. The newbie can use it, along with the high end pro to do some pretty nice stuff. There are a lot of filters included with Liquid which means that most likely you won't need a 3rd party program for effects...that said, I like to use After Effects and Boris Red along with Liquid. Liquid also comes with a titler...I myself don't use it, as I much prefer Red and After Effects for my titles....I do some pretty intense compositing with titles (some have 10 layeres of the same text recomped over each other with filters and transfer modes).

Premiere is cool, but not my cup of tea. I own it, or I will soon, am awaiting my shipment of the Adobe video collection. I will play around with it, but it will not be my tool of choice. I bought it because I was buying After Effects pro and photoshop and it was cheaper to buy the video collection than to buy those two titles seperately. I definately wouldn't have bought it otherwise....but I own it so I will definately play around with it...it also comes with Adobe Audition and Encore (DVD authoring)...again wouldn't have bought them, but will play with them.

The learning curve....well if you've never edited, it may be a good thing. The Liquid timeline is different than other editors, I really like it. It lets me edit....I don't have to think about the tools, I just edit. It is like a natural extension of my creativity, I don't have to think about the tools, I just edit. You can map all kinds of keyboard shortcuts in Liquid, so basically you set Liquid up to work the way you want it to. I suggest going on the Pinnacle Liquid Edition forum here at the COW....I think is his name is Paul Mitton...he has a book out or training DVDs, or both...he could certainly help you out. Too bad you are on the West coast...there is agreat event happening at Avid in january, but it is near Boston...some great courses.
The learning can be steep for some, but don't forget, you are learning everything in one package, you don't have to learn a bunch of titles...and lets face it, the price is right !!!

Hope this helps, please feel free to ask anything again that I may have missed. Reply in this forum for this post.

All the best,

Mark harvey







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aisurf
Re: Liquid 7 configuration & newbie
on Dec 21, 2005 at 5:28:40 am

Mark,

Thanks so much for your input. I am always amazed how kind people can be on these forums - it is so generous to respond and a huge help. I have only the Raid set up (Raid 0) - no additional drives. I have seen where people have a different drive for each application - editing software, email & internet, word processing etc. and they remove each one and replace it with the application they are using. Would this be beneficial or overkill. I was thinking a seperate external drive for my editing software and another external drive for all the other stuff together(excel, word, email, internet, virus protection etc) what do you think? Be warned a stupid question about to come next....If you think this is wise do I put the operating system on the internal Raid where the video data will be held or does it go on each external drive I mentioned above? Not sure how all that works?

If you don't have time for this type of question I understand. I really appreciate your valuable time.

Thanks Again,

Ron



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mark harvey
Re: Liquid 7 configuration & newbie
on Dec 21, 2005 at 3:25:35 pm

Ron,
I would invest in a SATA internal drive, of course depends on your motherboard as to whether you can fit more drives. I would use this drive for the OS, software and project files. I would use the Raid drives for media and renders.
I would partition the new drive to have the OS in it's own partition, and also would create a partition for Liquid. Once that is set up, and before editing, I would create a ghost of that drive for future re-installs if necessary.
I would go to a PC shop to have them do this work, but that is me, I am an editor not a PC guy, although I have done a fair bit of reading.

My system has an internal 74gig 10 000 rpm OS and program drive, and then four 300gig media drives in a Raid 0 configuration.

I had to add a SATA raid controller to my motherboard....I could only have 2 drives on the onboard Raid controller...not enough. My vendor used a Raidcore Raid controller, definately fast !

Mark

And by the way, it is my pleasure to answer questions....I have been here since day one of the Cow and plan to be around for a while to come.


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aisurf
Re: Liquid 7 configuration & newbie
on Dec 21, 2005 at 11:41:42 pm

Mark,

My motherboard has the ability to house 4 drives but I do not have anymore room in my case for another hard drive. I have my two raid drives and two rom drives taking up all the room. Would an external usb sata drive be sufficient to accomplish what you describe? I suppose a pc shop could answer that question but I want to go in there at least faking I know what I'm talking about.

Thanks

Ron



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mark harvey
Re: Liquid 7 configuration & newbie
on Dec 22, 2005 at 11:37:36 am

I don't know if you can boot from an external drive....I'm not sure if speed would be an issue. I would suggest that calling a good PC shop may be your best bet....to find a good pc shop in your area....I would suggest going to the Avid site and find local dealers. That is how I found my dealer...they are a PC shop, but they specialize in video editing worksatations.....they built me a beast !
Sorry I can't help more than that...as I said, I am an editor, but love PCs...

All the best, and Happy holidays...
If you need more advice etc, please feel free to continue this thread.
Mark


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aisurf
Re: Liquid 7 configuration & newbie
on Dec 23, 2005 at 6:01:55 am

Thanks again for all of your help. You've got me hunting for a good PC shop. I tried the Avid dealer approach and got shot down. One in my area said they cannot work on the Dell system I have because it is not on their approved Avid list. Eventhough it could work, if a system is not on the list they won't touch it. Another Avid dealer tried to talk me out of Liquid edition calling it an inferior editing program designed only for those taking home videos of "their kids playing soccer" and into Avid Express Pro. Then they proceeded to reconstruct my whole system, finally shooting it down stating I should just buy a dedicated Avid express system with dual monitors. "Wouldn't it be great if I had a money tree". I am still on the hunt for someone to assist with my system - If you have any other suggestions, comments, or insights I'm all ears.

Thanks again - Have a Fantastic Holiday!

Ron



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mark harvey
Re: Liquid 7 configuration & newbie
on Dec 23, 2005 at 11:41:28 am

I'm sure Avid would be REALLY impressed with the store shooting down Liquid.....They have probably never seen the system, but because it is priced with some of the lower end editing apps they make the assumption that it is inferior....they are pc salespeople, not editors....they have no clue what they are talking about....
Earlier this year I trained some editors on a media100 system....they hired me because the training they were provided was by a pc salesman...he knew nothing about editing, but he showed them how XP worked !!!!

Have you thought about calling Dell and discussing this with them....Explain to them that you would like to have the Raid, and that you would like to have a seperate drive to boot from. They may be able to help you. If they can't, then you may have to boot from your array. Not the ideal solution, but hey it would work.

Back to Liquid not being "pro", well I work on Liquid Blue at my day job. It is essentially the same software, except a few more codecs, some hardware to speed up renders, and a bigger break-out box than Liquid... This year, I won two PROMAX gold awards with promos that I had edited on this system using the Liquid tools. Sure I did some compositing in 3rd party apps, but essentially the meat of the promos came through Liquid.

If you take the time to learn Liquid, you will love it. If you want to edit, effect, mix, burn to DVD....then Liquid is the all in one product for you....it will do anything you can imagine. As I said, I also run other software, but I do a ton of compositing, and use features that Liquid doesn't offer. You can do a lot, but it is not a full-fledged compositing application such as After Effects and Boris Red.

Happy holidays,
Let me know how it goes.

Mark Harvey


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aisurf
Re: Liquid 7 configuration & newbie
on Dec 23, 2005 at 7:54:41 pm

Hey Mark,

I found a place that is an Avid dealer - Core Microsystems-in San Jose. They are friendly, knowledgeable and support Liquid - the downside is they are about a 9hr drive from me (can't have everything). They have a Liquid turnkey system that is built on the same processor and similar specs as mine - so they are open to working with the componenets I have. They made similar suggestions as you and can make the changes necessary to make my system work. They want me to ship my system to them so they can look at it. They said they may need to change the case because my Dell may not provide proper cooling and ventilation to house another drive and handle the cooling needs. They said they will change the case (if necessary), add the system drive, load the software, configure & test the system, create the restore disk and ship it back guaranteed to work great. All & all I'm looking at $750 with labor, materials & shipping (assuming they need to change case). What do you think?

Software questions: I have not yet bought the Liquid software. I can buy the vs. 7 for $479 or I can buy version 6(which includes Mind Meld Liquid Edition 6 Training DVD and the Discovering Liquid Edition DVD) for $249. Remember I am using Liquid to produce instructional videos(for resale) for my wifes cooking and healthy eating courses. I am also a newbie so the training videos would be nice. Do you think in my case vs 7 is worth the additional money and absence of training dvd's?

As always - thanks for your outstanding advice - it is truly priceless.

Ron



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mark harvey
Re: Liquid 7 configuration & newbie
on Dec 27, 2005 at 3:06:01 am

Ron,

That is great news about the PC. Often when you buy a big name, like Dell or HP, it is hard to get the system upgraded....I would definately go for this upgrade....if the company is a recommended Avid shop, then you should be dealing with quality folks.

As for the version you should be running.....well....I like having new software, that said you can save big bucks by running slightly older. I never worked with version 6 of Liquid...only 7..... So, I am going to point you in the direction of the Pinnacle Liqiud Edition forum here on the COW. Don't get me wrong, it is not that I don't want to help, au contraire, I think that you will have more opinions from editors who have run both versions.....you will be better served by them. By all means, post here anytime, but it would be better for the answer on the version to ask over there.

Congrats on the PC...

Mark


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aisurf
Re: Liquid 7 configuration & newbie
on Dec 27, 2005 at 6:04:21 pm

Hey Mark,

Hope you had a great holiday. Just wanted to send you a quick thanks for all of your help. I made the post in the liquid forum regarding the version. I am several big steps down the road on my editing journey. After I decide on the software version I will be sending my PC to the avid dealer to upgrade, configure and load the software. Can't wait to get started. Thanks again for everything. Have a great new year!

Ron



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