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Recording, Livestreaming, and Closed Captioning all at once?! (x-post question from a terrified newbie)

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Emily Schooley
Recording, Livestreaming, and Closed Captioning all at once?! (x-post question from a terrified newbie)
on Jan 9, 2015 at 6:31:26 am

(Please note that I have cross-posted this in several forums. I hope that's okay... I am really stressed out about this and am casting a wide as possible net for help.)

I've been doing basic video production for a few years now, but it's been "show up, film, edit, send finished product to client", which I can do. I have a single camera setup and shoot with a Canon XA10, along with various audio and lighting gear. Mostly indie stuff.

A new client wants me to run video for a live discussion panel event - not just filming the event, but they also want to:
a) be livestreamed to the internet at the same time as recording
b) possibly have a separate recording of translated French audio, to be later edited in to the video (this isn't as big a problem, as I have a Zoom H6 I can record audio on)
c) simultaneously, they would also like to have closed captioning broadcast for accessibility reasons - though I think this is just within the room itself. They said: "the closed captioning service would be reflected at the bottom of a projected feed of the video onto the (projection) screen."

To put it mildly, I am confused about how to do this, or if it would all even be possible at once.

To the best of my understanding from what I've researched so far, for the livestream, I would have to run HDMI out of the camera to a capture card of some sort.
First problem: I've never used a capture card.

Second problem: I am not sure how to simultaneously broadcast/project a video stream for the closed captioning aspect, nor have I ever dealt with closed captioning equipment. Apparently there is a company that will be doing this service and the event venue has a projection screen and projector already, but I haven't heard back from them as to what they need or how they normally do it.

I do know that the Canon XA10 has one component out port along with the one HDMI out port, so my thinking was maybe that I could run two video lines out simultaneously? I have no idea if this is even possible.

Any advice would be much appreciated.


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Recording, Livestreaming, and Closed Captioning all at once?! (x-post question from a terrified newbie)
on Jan 9, 2015 at 10:17:30 am

Hey Emily,

It would help if we knew which part of the world that you are based in?

First of all: It is all about the money! If there are no budget, walk away. I am saying this upfront because the specs you are giving is not for a single camera production. It can be done, but the client won't thank you for poor quality content, and all the money in the world won't rescue an unhappy client. This is not to be harsh against you, but just to make sure that both feet remains on the ground.

[Emily Schooley] "a live discussion panel event"
The word "Panel" indicates multiple people = multiple sound sources. This normally could be anything from 2 - 6 microphones. DO NOT expect the panel participants to be able to share around a wireless hand-held - they wont. Also, depending on the moderator and setting, you may have a lively discussion that may involve a Q&A audience. If so, outsource to a AV company and take a line audio feed from them. They should also be able to provide lighting and staging too.

Although panel discussions can be covered with one camera, do consider using two or three cameras to be able to cover the whole panel both in mid-shots and wide. Some of the cameras can be fixed, but health & safety you may want to consider additional operators.

[Emily Schooley] "livestreamed to the internet at the same time as recording"
This is where it starts to get expensive. Do question why the client wants it to be live streamed? Is it a topical issue? will there be anyone watching it live?
In any case you will need:
A) A good steady data up-link connection. Can be I/P based, but needs to be thoroughly tested and ensure that you are not sharing it with too many other users.
B) Wirecast from Telestream is one software package to use, that with the right hardware will allow you combine camera and sound, live mix between cameras, ISO record whilst streaming out the signal.
C) You need a service to distribute the Live streamed video - one channel, will only give you one viewer. So if your client is expecting 50,000 viewers, then you need someone with that kind of bandwidth. There are a number of suppliers that can do this from Google Hang-outs to paid for - but do expect to pay per view.
D) With regards to the French version you can ISO record both on the cameras and/or on the right streaming hardware. Just make sure to check that you will get the right quality.
E) "closed captioning" if you haven't done it before, do outsource to a company that is specialized in doing it - there are plenty around that can do it faster, better and cheaper than you can do it. If you need to it live, then there are people who can do that too. But on a live event, where you are managing video, sound and streaming - do NOT add close captioning to your worries. With regards to having it projected, that should not be a problem either. Just make sure that you get the "cc" file afterwards to use in post - maybe consider asking the supplier to ensure that the file matches your recording - after all, live translation/subtitling will never be perfect, particularly not if everybody on the panel is speaking simultaneously :-)

With regards to the camera you are using. Converting an HDMI into what-ever connection should be easy enough. However, will you be able with the XA10 to operate it for the full length of the discussion and deliver a framing that you afterwards will be happy with? Back to item of covering a whole panel with one camera...?

Hope this helps answer some of your concerns. Otherwise come back with more questions/ideas.

Good Luck, sounds like a great project to take your business up to something larger!

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Steve Brame
Re: Recording, Livestreaming, and Closed Captioning all at once?! (x-post question from a terrified newbie)
on Jan 9, 2015 at 12:24:51 pm

Equipment-wise, I agree with Mad's about Telestream's Wirecast. We use it to produce exactly what you are describing, and we do it all with a single laptop. It will handle everything you need easily. There is a bit of a learning curve though, but probably a lot less than other solutions short of a Tricaster, and it costs MUCH less - thousands less!

Another solution might be VidBlaster, which is similar to Wirecast and the Tricaster's software, but doesn't mix audio - that must be handled with a seperate audio mixer. Wirecast and Tricaster have native audio mixing and routing built-in.

Asus P6X58D Premium * Core i7 950 * 24GB RAM * nVidia GeForce GTX 770 * Windows 7 Premium 64bit * System Drive - WD Caviar Black 500GB * 2nd Drive(Pagefile, Previews) - WD Velociraptor 10K drive 600GB * Media Drive - 2TB RAID0 (4 - WD Caviar Black 500GB drive) * Matrox MX02 Mini * Adobe CC * QuickTime 7.7.5
-------------------------------------------
"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
Steve Brame
creative illusions Productions


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Emily Schooley
Re: Recording, Livestreaming, and Closed Captioning all at once?! (x-post question from a terrified newbie)
on Jan 12, 2015 at 10:30:04 pm

Thanks Steve.

I assume all the tech stats you listed at the bottom are what you have on the broadcasting laptop? :)


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Steve Brame
Re: Recording, Livestreaming, and Closed Captioning all at once?! (x-post question from a terrified newbie)
on Jan 15, 2015 at 2:24:56 pm

Sorry for the delay. No, those stats are for our editing system back in our studio. The laptop we use for webcasting is an ASUS N53S which is several years old. It's specs are -

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2670QM CPU @ 2.20GHz
6GB RAM
Intel HD Graphics 3000
1 500GB 7200RPM SATA drive partition to 2 logical drives
1 USB3 external drive

So...not very powerful by today's standards. We bring the video in via a Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle's HDMI port. Last summer we streamed a 2 hour webcast at the Final Four in Dallas, TX without a single problem.

Asus P6X58D Premium * Core i7 950 * 24GB RAM * nVidia GeForce GTX 770 * Windows 7 Premium 64bit * System Drive - WD Caviar Black 500GB * 2nd Drive(Pagefile, Previews) - WD Velociraptor 10K drive 600GB * Media Drive - 2TB RAID0 (4 - WD Caviar Black 500GB drive) * Matrox MX02 Mini * Adobe CC * QuickTime 7.7.5
-------------------------------------------
"98% of all computer issues can be solved by simply pressing 'F1'."
Steve Brame
creative illusions Productions


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Emily Schooley
Re: Recording, Livestreaming, and Closed Captioning all at once?! (x-post question from a terrified newbie)
on Jan 12, 2015 at 10:41:20 pm

Hi Mads,

Thanks for the very detailed reply. Since I posted, it turns out livestreaming is off the table due to the venue's crap internet speeds. (And, location-wise, I am in Toronto, Canada.)

To answer a couple of your questions... yes, of course this is a paid project! Low four-figure; I was originally just hired to video record the events and then the scope has gotten bigger and bigger. My partner who normally handles my audio is on-board for the audio on this as well, and there is a company that is coming in to do the closed captioning.

I am slowly getting answers from the other tech freelancers, but I still don't have a 100% clear picture of what I will need to provide for the closed captioning.

I really do appreciate the detailed reply, I was beginning to feel a lot like Chicken Little! All of what you've said is very good to know should livestreaming come up again in the future... I will be sure to let you know how it all comes together!


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Recording, Livestreaming, and Closed Captioning all at once?! (x-post question from a terrified newbie)
on Jan 15, 2015 at 12:08:16 pm

Hey Emily,

It all sounds like you've got it sorted without too much hassle, which is great.

Just a quick comment on connectivity:
If you don't have a line internet connection, but access to 3G and/or 4G mobile signals there are now black-boxes which contains 4-8 sim-cards for different mobile data services. They will split the signal into small data packets, multiply them, and transmit them for you. At server level they will then re-assemble the data and stream the video out to your audience with very little delay. In the UK there are suppliers who will hire you such box with the mobile data service by the day at a lower cost than a SNG truck - would expect the same for Canada.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Emily Schooley
Re: Recording, Livestreaming, and Closed Captioning all at once?! (x-post question from a terrified newbie)
on Jan 15, 2015 at 9:37:53 pm

Hi Mads,

I thought I had it figured out but I am back to square one. Hoping you can offer further help.

What the client has decided is a picture in picture with closed captioning live feed just within the event room itself. No online broadcast.

So, Camera A will be the main feed of the panel. Camera B will be the PinP of the ASL interpreter for the event. Running at the top of the screen, ideally, is the closed captioning. Static pictures, no switching back and forth. The wildcard is the closed captioning - I still don't know what type of file it comes in, or even if the raw output will play nice with the camera feeds.

I am still stuck on how to make this all work seamlessly. I've been looking at the BlackMagic ATEM 1 M/E but I am not sure if I will need a second computer to process the video in any way (I know it needs one computer to control the software/visual mix board). We won't be recording the PinP event (I'll be recording raw in camera A) or anything like that, but I am still confused on how exactly to make this happen.

Any other tech recs? What am I likely still missing?


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Recording, Livestreaming, and Closed Captioning all at once?! (x-post question from a terrified newbie)
on Jan 15, 2015 at 10:00:58 pm

Hey Emily,

No problem, you are not quite back at square one as you are deducting the parts that are not needed for the production.

However, how big is the audience?
And how big is the projection going to be? And how many projectors/screens will be present?
As if there are less than 2-300 people, I would suggest that it would not make much of a difference if the ASL interpreter was situated slightly off-stage and not in PinP at all. Your client may not agree, so do listen to them before following my lead.

From what you are saying the Close Captioning will be a live feed either automated by a box that speaks and writes French, or a person hammering away on a keyboard. Either way, I would examine if that box will give you a video signal that you can key onto your camera feed through the vision mixer. I did a quick Google search and found a company with representation in Canada that may be able to help you http://www.enco.com/products/encaption3.html? The alternative is to speak with the conference AV supplier, the local NGO for deaf people or even hit on one of the broadcasters to see what they do. Also, not sure that it will be readable or look pretty if it is situated at the top of the screen - the norm (in Europe) is bottom of the screen as the viewer normally would "read it" from top left to bottom right. Hence why you want them to look at the person speaking first, before offering the text.

I've never worked with the Blackmagic Atem, but it looks like that it could do the job. However, you still need to add production monitor(s) and make sure that the mixer will sync the cameras together - some mixers require a black-burst or TC signal to do that without getting rolling pictures. Make sure to test the setup in advance (talking week/weeks rather than hours) to ensure that it is working.

Finally, although client does not want a recording always roll a "tape" across the final feed (with sound) for both in case client wants to pay for using it later, or even if not expected, there are an issue (complaint) afterwards which will allow you to inspect the footage.

Enjoy :-)

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Emily Schooley
Re: Recording, Livestreaming, and Closed Captioning all at once?! (x-post question from a terrified newbie)
on Jan 16, 2015 at 5:59:28 am

Thanks Mads - that is all very helpful!! The audience is going to be about 250 or so (it's a long room, a bit narrower).

There will be a person doing the closed captioning live on site that has their own gear, including laptop and would be outputting... something... from the laptop.(the French translation is something totally different!!) Is this box another step along the way that I will need?

From what I've been reading elsewhere, some programs may only be able to put closed captioning along the bottom of the screen anyway. A large part of me hopes this will be enough of a turn-off for the client that they'll ditch the closed captioning portion.

What is black-burst and TC?

As for recording, my plan is to record the A camera footage in-camera while also running it out live. (I don't think they'll want the ASL for the recording/web version they want to put up later.)


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Recording, Livestreaming, and Closed Captioning all at once?! (x-post question from a terrified newbie)
on Jan 16, 2015 at 11:54:30 am

Hey Emily,

[Emily Schooley] "There will be a person doing the closed captioning live on site that has their own gear, including laptop and would be outputting... something... from the laptop.(the French translation is something totally different!!) Is this box another step along the way that I will need?"

Good question: if you, I would ask the person doing the Close Captioning whether they will take your camera (or mixed) feed and super-impose the text onto that, before they give the signal to the projector? I.e. your set-up is first in the chain rather than last - it is then up to the CC person to add the text and supply the projector.

[Emily Schooley] "
What is black-burst and TC?"

TC is the time-code which in the old days was recorded onto a separate track on the tape (today it is all part of your digital file). Black-burst is again from the old days, although still used in larger facilities, are to ensure that all "boxes" are synchronized.Best explained that both cameras might be running 60 fps, but one is running 1/2 a frame ahead of the other. The sync-lock ensures that both cameras are running at the same time.
More info can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video-signal_generator
However, some video mixers are able to deal with this internally. All you have to do is to be aware of it, and make sure the problem doesn't appear on the day.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Emily Schooley
Re: Recording, Livestreaming, and Closed Captioning all at once?! (x-post question from a terrified newbie)
on Jan 16, 2015 at 10:02:19 pm

Thanks so much Mads - I didn't realize how much I didn't know I didn't know.

I FINALLY heard from someone back at the closed captioning and it turns out they used Text on Top (http://www.text-on-top.com/) so they actually output the CC steam via wireless USB. I don't know of any video mixers that take USB as input, but it seems the client may be okay with having the captioning on the Powerpoint screen rather than the live video feed stream.

I've been looking at both the Tricaster40 and Livestream Studio™ HD510... may be overkill but it seems to do what I will need them to otherwise.


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Recording, Livestreaming, and Closed Captioning all at once?! (x-post question from a terrified newbie)
on Jan 17, 2015 at 12:03:03 am

Hey Emily,

Welcome to the world of live multicam productions. Once you've done it a couple of times you'll soon forget the steep learning curve :-)

[Emily Schooley] "Text on Top (http://www.text-on-top.com/) so they actually output the CC steam via wireless USB. I don't know of any video mixers that take USB as input"
Nope, judging from their website "Text on Top" is a plugin for PowerPoint - clever, but can't see it working with a vision mixer unless the firm has written a plug-in code. Might be worth emailing Text on Top to ask them.

The mixers that you are mentioning are known quantities too. I suggest that you go with a hire company that you are comfortable with and who will support you with a test and on location (I'm assuming that you are renting, rather than buying?).

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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