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Jerry Hatfield
Vertical Displays
on Aug 2, 2006 at 10:15:35 pm

I have been approached by a client interested in having content shown on vertical displays.
I have several ideas how this might be accomplished, however, I would like the definitive answer
from someone who has been there and done that.
Thanks

Jerry Hatfield
Six Gill DV
Orlando, Florida


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Mark Suszko
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 3, 2006 at 2:58:23 pm

You mean, like a wide-screen plasma Tv set on one end to be in a vertical-oriented "portrait mode" versus normal "landscape mode"? I have seen articles in DV and other mags where a project was shot end-to-end with the cameras on their side, to capture as large a frame as possible which is then DVE'd and scaled to the portrait orientation.

If you were to shoot in High-res HD, you could shoot and compose your graphics "normally", then rotate and scale everything in the composite to fit the destination "portrait" plasma and still look pretty sharp. I'm not any kind of expert on this but I imagine you'd want to shoot this in a non-interlaced format.


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Jerry Hatfield
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 3, 2006 at 9:48:02 pm

My confusion on the whole thing is the plasma handling the rotation. If it rotates everything 90 degrees
then if I shoot vertically it will rotate that 90 degrees or can the display unit tell 16x9 from 9x16?
This is my dilema. I guess shooting in horizontal HD and then scaling it for vertical would be the
easiest. I still think there will be a test and try method.
Thanks for your reply.

Jerry Hatfield
Six Gill DV
Orlando, Florida


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Mark Suszko
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 3, 2006 at 10:31:49 pm

Yeah, as far as I know (which isn't much) the plasma screen has no way to discern the orientation of the signal nor any way to automatically turn it on it's side to fit. You have to choose the way that happens, either thru some real-time frame-bending technology like the kind they use for high-tech staging... or by gaming the system by pre-rotating the source and scaling it to fit during the shoot or post. I'm thinking the guys in the live-stage forum here on the cow would have some better ideas about this. They use some very advanced toys in their multiscreen work.


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Thomas Leong
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 4, 2006 at 6:25:42 am

Just a word of caution re turning plasmas on its side (or facing upwards, downwards, etc) for a long period of time. The caution is HEAT!

Most, if not all, plasmas are designed to dissipate heat upwards when oriented horizontally. So the vents are at the horizontal top edges. Orienting the display sideways will likely redirect the heat back into the casing and may have adverse effects on the unit when operated over a period of time. When orienting the display in a position for which it is not designed, try to operate with the covers/casing off. That would be best.

Thomas Leong



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Mark Suszko
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 4, 2006 at 2:34:26 pm

Interesting point. I wonder what they do for the ones used in all-day 24/7 applications like digital signage? Maybe they don't use a plasma for those but an LCD instead.


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Thomas Leong
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 4, 2006 at 5:25:08 pm

All the plasmas used for digital signages that I have seen in my locality have been horizontally mounted. Perhaps the vertical ones that you have seen are made for that orientation, or that there may be models from some manufacturers that do cater for that. For any user, it would be safer to check with the manufacturer as a caution.

Thomas Leong



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Thomas Leong
Re: Vertical Displays...then again...
on Aug 4, 2006 at 5:40:31 pm

I wonder what plasmas they use for these? Probably for short runs, and extremely tough and mounted really securely.

Thomas Leong



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Jerry Hatfield
Re: Vertical Displays...then again...
on Aug 4, 2006 at 11:35:05 pm

The Vertical display itself, is not my responsibility. However, Sony has a vertical unit specifically designed for Vertical Use.

Jerry Hatfield
Six Gill DV
Orlando, Florida


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tony salgado
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 5, 2006 at 3:21:03 pm



I shot a multi screen vertical display recently and the best method I advised the client was to shoot in one camera on HDCAM so we could cut out the four segments in standard def during post later. The other option would have been to shoot four SD cameras vertically which would have been a major pain.


The camera shot the actors horizontal and I had the editor provide me a template for lining up the actors into the correct area. I was able to overlay the template over the live action in the field using a great feature in the Leader 5750 HDSDI waveform monitor which allows superimposing freeze frames over live action.


The concept and show worked great.



Tony Salgado


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Bryan Parris
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 8, 2006 at 1:25:39 pm

I did the vertical plasma display thing about a year ago, and while it was quite a pain, it was technically pretty straight forward. We shot video with the camera on its side. Because of the size of our camera and our tripod (most pro tripods cannot tilt to 90 degrees) we rented a special mounting rig from the local grip supply place. In the edit, I turned the production monitor on its side so I could see how it looked, and with graphics in After Effects I spent a lot of time cranking my head sideways. Other than shooting sideways and editing awkwardly, everything else was straight forward. They hooked a DVD player into the plasma as normal, and turned the plasma on it's side with a mounting bracket designed for that. As far as the plasma is concerned, it's receiving a standard signal. Hope this helps simplify things.

Bryan


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Mark Suszko
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 8, 2006 at 3:13:10 pm

Yes, this is what I was saying before and what I'd try first,if the job was a simple one, but you can also shoot in HD with the camera in normal position, then do the rotation in post to wind up wih an acceptable version output vertically in portrait mode in SD. You're using the extra resolution of the HD in the initial aquisition to make up for the resolution given up during the rotation and scaling process on output. Just in this instance, you would be right if you used the improper nomenclature: "pan down".:-)

Or you leave it all up to an expensive and sophisticated outboard DVE/ scaler box, like a Stumpfl or something, which makes shooting and post a non-issue, but adds a lot of cost and possibilities for failure to the playback side. For a long-term installation, might not be cost-effective.


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Thomas Leong
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 8, 2006 at 7:51:57 pm

"Or you leave it all up to an expensive and sophisticated outboard DVE/ scaler box, like a Stumpfl or something, which makes shooting and post a non-issue, but adds a lot of cost and possibilities for failure to the playback side. For a long-term installation, might not be cost-effective."

Don't want to start an argument, but I feel compelled to correct an error or two in the above comment especially since I use AVStumpfl's software for multidisplay work.

AFAIK, Stumpfl does not make nor sell DVE/scaler boxes. Perhaps the reference should have been directed towards Folsom, Extron, Analog Way and others...but Stumpfl is not it. And it's products can be cost-effective for long-term installations as they are designed for such purposes.

If the reference to Stumpfl was to imply that its software, Wings Platinum (Module version) can scale, edit, apply basic DVE, and turn a horizontally shot video(s) 90 degrees either way in post, and output it as such through the PC's graphics card's VGA or DVI out, or even output it as a composited presentation video file from the results, then that would be correct.

Thomas Leong
Co-owner/Moderator of Yahoo Multidisplays Group



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Mark Suszko
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 8, 2006 at 10:12:14 pm

Thomas, I think we were saying the same thing; only you were more precise and detailed articulating the differences.


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Mark Suszko
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 8, 2006 at 10:21:30 pm

By cost-effective, I only mean that you can save the cost of attaching and paying for or renting the add-on DVE or scaling equipment if all that work was done in post, and the vertical-ized monitor just needs a simple playback from a standard deck, hard disk box, DVD, etc. If it's for a 3-day auto show display, or something, you have many choices. If it's for inexpensive long-term digital signage/art in a retail setting or museum type setting, then pre-comping the video to be vertical makes more sense to me in the long run. If it needs repeated updateing in a short time frame or you are going to use it live, like they do on some news/interview programs, then you don't have time to pre-render, so you use a DVE or other product as Thomas has mentioned.


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Jerry Hatfield
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 9, 2006 at 10:33:02 pm

The way this is going to be used is for a permanent/semi-permanent display. My main question was
to shoot horizontal or shoot vertical? It seems that both ways work. The display the client has been
looking at will rotate the horizontal to vertical. It will scale it to fit. This will look like crap
in any event. The idea of shooting vertical and then rotating the display itself as opposed to software
is an interesting idea. I believe some research in that arena, as far as heat dissapation and such, needs
to be addresed. Thanks for all of the replys.

Jerry Hatfield
Six Gill DV
Orlando, Florida


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mark Suszko
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 10, 2006 at 12:21:01 am

Best of luck, and please promise to come back and recount how it finally resolved, so we can all learn something from it.


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Thomas Leong
Re: Vertical Displays...hear, hear (No Text within)
on Aug 10, 2006 at 4:25:01 am

NT



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Bob Blaha
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 14, 2006 at 3:05:40 pm

Used this before (http://www.dataton.com/watchout). High end ($$$) but flawless execution. Used a lot in trade shows corp events, and the like.


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George Socka
Re: Vertical Displays
on Aug 14, 2006 at 11:57:37 pm

I only did one like this - all created out of stock video and animated stills. All rotated in a 16x9 Premiere project - so that when looking on the computer screen it was sideways - but when played out (real time) to a real vertically mounted monitor (only a small one mind you) it looked ok. None of the 4x3 source elements were used full screen - titles and other graphics elemenst filled the bottom or top. In fact, most elements were used in a PIP fashion. Looked good when seen from the intended distance.

I would guess that if you shoot footage in SD, you make sure that you can cut off as much as is required from each side.



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Florin Sev
Re: Vertical Displays
on Mar 30, 2009 at 4:13:29 pm

Starting now, each timelapse clip in HDtimelapse.net Library have a downloadable Vertical HD Crop (1080x1920) which matches the coresponding Vertical HD timelapse and can be used for Digital Signage and Vertical Display.

The vertical aspect has been cropped from the original still images (4288x2848).

Upon request, this Vertical HD Crop can be modified according to the client's wishes in order to meet artistic and/or technical requirements.

http://www.hdtimelapse.net


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Charlie Kendall
Re: Vertical Displays
on Apr 23, 2009 at 3:12:10 am

Spider Support Systems has introduced a new camera mount for shooting video for vertical displays. It's called the Ringo Head. Works with any camera.

http://www.spidersupport.com/index.php/features-mainmenu-35/ringo-head




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