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Shooting weddings in 30p

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Rob Fourchalk
Shooting weddings in 30p
on Apr 27, 2011 at 10:27:13 pm

Is there anyone out there that is an expert in wedding videography? Just starting out to shoot weddings and wanted to get an idea what would be the best shooting speed(s). Have been practicing with 30p (or in my case 30f) and feel this to be a good mix of film/video feel for a wedding video.

For example: when you are 360ing around the bride (slowed down in post) does this require 60i or is 30 the standard?

Do most shoot the ceremony in 24p?

What about when the bride's getting ready with makeup etc... 60i?

I do notice on my xh a1 that when I'm shooting in 30 or 24p that any motion (whether panning slowly or little faster) creates not a very fluid shot (quite jagged and rough and distored). Should these types of shoot with motion be shot in 60i? I use a uv/haze filter - could this distort?

It sucks being green and I have read a lot of material for weddings but just havent had the shooting speed really fastened down.

Thanks in advance to anyone that may be of help.

Rob

PS - those 360 shots of the bride etc... - are they best done with a glidecam. Been trying out the fig rig (even though not much of a stabilization device). Does anyone use the fig rig for these kind of shots with any success.?


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Mark Suszko
Re: Shooting weddings in 30p
on Apr 28, 2011 at 2:25:03 pm

Slomo always benefits from using a progressive rather than interlaced recording, IMO. The real help of course is to shoot in a higher speed, so you have more frames to play out to get that slomo. Interpolation plug-ins like Twixtor can only go so far.

I would prefer to shoot 30p over 24, myself, unless this is actually printing to film at some point. Also, if this were me, I'd try applying some pulldown-effect removal to reduce that nasty flicker. people chasing the visual effect of 24 frame with pulldown are IMO aping the worst part of film making, and it's become a cliche', again, IMO to over-do the temporal artifacting in order to sell the idea that this is a film.

The "real" film shooters had to get used to learning the speeds at which to pan and move the camera, that didn't create the temporal artifacting you're seeing. That's the faustian bargain you make when you go 24 frames.


As far as how to shoot the 360, stay as wide as possible, and work on making your body movement fluid. I find it helps to ask the bride to do a twirl in the counter-direction, then you don't have to move as much or as fast. I have my own home-made fig rig knockoff, because Bogen's prices were ridiculous to me. Any kind of outboard grab handles will help in holding those smaller body cameras, the ergonomics of holding them in front of you, rather than on the shoulder, are abysmal. Like anything, it gets better with practice. A steadicam is great to have, but I would never use one to cover a wedding, because it makes you stand out and call too much attention to yourself, which is counter-productive to good shooting of these kinds of events. You get better, moer candid stuff when you can blend into the scene and not call everybody's attention to yourself.


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Rob Fourchalk
Re: Shooting weddings in 30p
on Apr 28, 2011 at 3:25:31 pm

Awesome feedback Mark - thanks so much! Lots to chew on. I hear what your saying about not wanting to stand out on "the day" with steadicams, glidecams etc... Just so I get this right, do you then shoot with a fig rig throughout the wedding day (when not on sticks etc..)? Do you use a shoulder mount at all? What about sliders for when bride comes down the aisle?

In experimenting with different stabilizers, for some reason I felt the best with fig rig and can see it as the lightest most hassle free tool to use at a wedding. Am I misleading myself at all? Wouldn't the fig rig (Bogen's) stand out quite abit too though (big 'ole steering wheel)?

Thanks again....

Rob


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Mark Suszko
Re: Shooting weddings in 30p
on Apr 28, 2011 at 4:58:28 pm

I mostly used to shoot Catholic services, where we don't allow any hollywood style hardware crap or rovign cams to intrude. No jibs, dollies, sliders, helicopter cams, etc. You get a tripod spot or two, and you're stuck there until afterwards. You use planted, hidden cams for reversal shots and b-roll. It's a religious service first, not a movie set location. Likewise with the Lutheran and few Jewish weddings I did.

What other, more secular wedding couple and officiants choose to do, well, I don't have any experience of those. I used only shoulder-riding cams for my wedding shoots, and many years of ENG newsgathering type shooting trained me well to hand-hold steady shots that way. Pre-wedding, and post-wedding and reception, you can get more crazy. That's where a bracing rig like a fig or other brand of hand grips will be... well.. handy, ...and in those contexts, they are not as obtrusive. Rule one is get the shot, but you often can't get the shot unless rule 2 (don't stand out and call attention to yourself) is working. Often you're better off shooting a well-stabilized telehoto candid shot from across the room, unnoticed, than if you're constantly in the bride's face from thre feet away, like a paparazzo trying to get upskirt shots or something. The better overall coverage comes from shooting at a VARIETY of angles from near to far, so as to give the audience a rreference to the setting, and moving the story along in editing with simplicity. A flat black monopod gets you almost anything you need from wedding coverage, IM. It acts as a stabilizer if you hold it right while moving. It makes your long tele shots steady when planted. It gets you a quick pop-up high angle shot like a jib where needed. But it takes up little footprint and lets you move easily.


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grinner hester
Re: Shooting weddings in 30p
on May 2, 2011 at 12:04:02 am

shoot em in whatever fps you dig unless otherwise directed by the client.



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Martin Curtis
Re: Shooting weddings in 30p
on May 3, 2011 at 12:18:08 pm

[Rob Fourchalk] "I do notice on my xh a1 that when I'm shooting in 30 or 24p that any motion (whether panning slowly or little faster) creates not a very fluid shot (quite jagged and rough and distored)."

Could the camera's image stabiliser(s) be contributing to this? I seem to recall it being recommended to turn them off unless you are shooting handheld.


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Rob Fourchalk
Re: Shooting weddings in 30p
on May 3, 2011 at 3:24:24 pm

Thanks Martin - bang on! Reminder to self - check fundamentals before jumping to conclusions. Thank....


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Brent Dunn
Re: Shooting weddings in 30p
on May 3, 2011 at 5:49:49 pm

24 or 30 is personal preference. Both work. I've done steadicam with both frame rates with good results. I don't use much slowmo effects anymore. If you shoot it right it'll all just flow together without using to much effects in post.

With experience you will shoot better. I shoot to edit. I don't waste a lot of time getting the same shot over and over. I try and nail it the first time and move on. I don't waste time shooting something I know will not be in the final edit. I usually have a song picked out for the highlight reel and that drives my shooting style for each event.

The film crap mentioned above is my style. There are limitations in certain locations, but you can get these shots before or after the ceremony. I only get 3 or 4 steadicam / glidecam shots and I'm done, because I know I don't want more than that in my final edit.

I use a slider on the floor during the ceremony, hidden at my feet while shooting on a tripod. I will sneek it out into the isle when nobody is looking and grab a few shots. It's not distracting and gives you another point of view.

I have shot 4 camera weddings with a crane, steadicam, slider, etc. If you know how to set this up behind people or balcony's, etc., you can pull it off with little or no distractions to the ceremony. This comes with experience.

Of course, I only go to such extremes for high paying clients.

Brent Dunn
Owner / Director / Editor
DunnRight Films
DunnRight Video.com
Video Marketing Toolbox.net

Sony EX-1,
Canon 5D Mark II
Canon 7D
Mac Pro Tower, Quad Core,
with Final Cut Studio

HP i7 Quad laptop
Adobe CS-5 Production Suite





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Rob Fourchalk
Re: Shooting weddings in 30p
on May 3, 2011 at 8:27:38 pm

Thanks Brent for sharing some of your shooting technique. On the topic of sliders: I'm looking to purchase one for cheap as possible (shoestring budget) - would this one by drylin garnish any response from yourself (or anyone else) http://www.amazon.com/DryLin%C2%AE-Linear-Motion-System-Sliders/dp/B003XECN... I know there is a diy factor involved with this particular model but has anyone had any experience both assembling and using this product?

Lastly, could you please elaborate on what you specifically shoot with your 3-4 steadicam/glidecam sequences? Would this be 360 around bride, the dance and coctail hour (for example)??

Is your slider mounted to your tripod when in use. Do you try and capture bride coming down aisle with slider.

Sorry for the barrage of questions, I am having a good read of "Wedding Videography: Start to Finish - by Joanna Silber for a rough base in starting my own business.

Thanks for all input...


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Brent Dunn
Re: Shooting weddings in 30p
on May 4, 2011 at 4:46:03 pm

First, practice, practice, practice. Get to know your equipment and your limitations. Don't use the wedding as a practice arena.


Glidecam shots:

Bride going down isle, fly in from the back of the isle / bride
Some shots after the wedding: mixture of shots
First dance, 180 bride and groom
intro of bridal party: mixture of fly by's, from behind bride and groom coming into the reception hall.

Empty room fly through

Glidetrack has a new Hybrid slider which looks interesting. I haven't seen or used the new version. I have the old slider which tends to stick. DP Slider works great. Again, you get what you pay for. Most of these are around $500.

Slider Shots: on floor, shots of dress. Sometimes on a bed or table getting some shots. On floor of isle during ceremony, or in front side of isle. It all depends on the venue. During the reception I may get shots of the bridal wine glasses, rings with back lighting, flowers, etc. ...again, depends on what's there. But I always get a ring shot with the slider.

Check out these amazing wedding film makers for ideas.
joseortizfilms.com

rayromanfilms.com

jasonmabanua.com

or my website or vimeo

dunnrightvideo.com

DunnRight Films on vimeo

Brent Dunn
Owner / Director / Editor
DunnRight Films
DunnRight Video.com
Video Marketing Toolbox.net

Sony EX-1,
Canon 5D Mark II
Canon 7D
Mac Pro Tower, Quad Core,
with Final Cut Studio

HP i7 Quad laptop
Adobe CS-5 Production Suite





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Rob Fourchalk
Re: Shooting weddings in 30p
on May 5, 2011 at 2:49:25 am

Thank you, thank you. Beautiful work by the way on your links Brent. Nice breakdown of your shooting plan.

If I may - how many hours of footage do you shoot on a typical wedding. I'll be using (2) cams - the principle shooter xha1 and its b-roll coverage sidekick hv? (still haven't bought yet). I'm sure it depends on what they pay for that decides how much you shoot - but just a ball park....

I'm not looking forward to shooting with tape (x's 2), as costly and pain reloading....

Which leads me to another question: for my 2nd cam - should I seriously consider a canon with a hard drive or stick with the hv series? Probably a question for the canon forum...

Thanks...


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Martin Curtis
Re: Shooting weddings in 30p
on May 3, 2011 at 10:23:26 pm

[Rob Fourchalk] "check fundamentals before jumping to conclusions"
I like to check my fundamentals before leaving the house. Saves embarrassing situations :-)


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Rob Fourchalk
Re: Shooting weddings in 30p
on May 5, 2011 at 4:05:39 am

Hey talking about fundamentals - does anyone know how my mug shot got up on this forum? Frightening notion taking advice from me on anything but incompetence (so Canadian of me I know - eh?)...


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Brent Dunn
Re: Shooting weddings in 30p
on May 10, 2011 at 5:03:27 pm

The amount of footage is directly related to your editing style. This comes with experience. I shoot less and less because I usually nail the shot the first time, or sometimes I'll repeat the shot a couple of times to give me different looks.

Some people shoot a shortform video. Some include a documentary style edit, which is much longer. Some may offer only a highlight reel, and some may offer all of the above. This will effect the length actually shot.

When you first start out, you should just shoot what you think is important and sort though it in the editing. As you begin to develop a style, you'll learn what NOT to shoot.

I've had bride's ask me to film them as they are going table to table talking with the guests. I never do this. Just to make them happy, I'll record maybe 30 seconds of those shots, but will never use it in the final edit. They never call me and ask, "Where are the shots of me talking to my guests."

If it doesn't help you in telling your story, don't use it. I have many awesome shots that I never used, because they didn't flow with the story, or I have many wow shots and could only use one or two, because using too many of the same style of shots is overkill.

Mix up your shots; close up, medium, wide Reveal Shots, Moving Shots (glidecam / steadicam, sliders, crane / jib.

And of course, practice, practice, practice shooting and editing.

Brent Dunn
Owner / Director / Editor
DunnRight Films
DunnRight Video.com
Video Marketing Toolbox.net

Sony EX-1,
Canon 5D Mark II
Canon 7D
Mac Pro Tower, Quad Core,
with Final Cut Studio

HP i7 Quad laptop
Adobe CS-5 Production Suite





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Rob Fourchalk
Re: Shooting weddings in 30p
on May 12, 2011 at 6:41:31 pm

Great advice Brent. Thanks! Do you know of any material available anywhere (video, hard cover) that focuses on very specifically video camera technique for weddings.

I watch so much of people work in the industry and have a pretty good feel for when they're using steadicams, tripods, sliders etc... but because I'm coming into this pretty green it would just be nice to have some reference material (cheap, if not free) to get a behind the scenes breakdown on cam technique.

Anyway, thanks a bunch and if you or anyone else has info. much appreciated.

Rob


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