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Now I'm posting again... sorry. Shooting an event

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Viking Jonsson
Now I'm posting again... sorry. Shooting an event
on Aug 4, 2010 at 10:47:57 am

Hello,

I'm going to do a part of a programme/teaser. I'm going to film vid a Panasonic DVX100.
It's the same location as I told You about earlier, a stage. On stage there will be interviews and music.

When I'm shooting this what should I have in mind?

If I pick up sound through a xlr-mic connected to the camera, should I use any specific settings (I've been told that it is important to set to line or mic depending on what you're going to shoot)?

Is it better to hire a long XLR and take the sound from the sound mixer's booth (I know I asked this earlier, but now the circumstances have changed)?

Maybe I could use both sound booth and xlr-mic?

Thank You

Regards
V

Named after Viking Eggeling


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Mark Suszko
Re: Now I'm posting again... sorry. Shooting an event
on Aug 4, 2010 at 4:50:26 pm

I am a belt-and-suspenders kind of guy, so I would record with my own well-placed mic as well as the board feed (which could be line-level or mic-level: ask the sound man which he's giving you though 75% of the time it will be line-level, especially for long cable runs). You may end up mixing between the sources. Set the impedance level of your mic channel to "mic" and the impedence level of the other channel to "line" level, if that indeed is what the sound guy gives you.

How do you know which is which?

The simple asnwer is, if you are set for mic input, a line-level signal is going to blast in way too loud and distorted; just to get the beginnings of a grip on it, you'll have your volume control just barely off the zero mark, less than one. If you are set for line level input, and the signal is so weak you have to crank your audio control knob up to "11" just to hear a whisper, with a lot of hum and buzz being picked up, you are being fed mic-level signals into a line-level input.


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Viking Jonsson
Re: Now I'm posting again... sorry. Shooting an event
on Aug 4, 2010 at 5:41:25 pm

Thank you very much.
For example let's say I will be working with a handy recorder, like the Zoom H4N, could I connect it to the board feed through the 1st xlr and use the 2nd to connect a mic to put on the stage. Or do you think this is too daring?

And now to my dumbest question..
If you use a handy recorder to pick up sound from the feed board is there any easy way to sync it with the picture with out making a fool of myself :)? (which I done with this question)

Thank You

Named after Viking Eggeling


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Mark Suszko
Re: Now I'm posting again... sorry. Shooting an event
on Aug 4, 2010 at 7:33:24 pm

You certainly can put the zoom recorder on the board feed, to synch it up later. This eliminates a long cable run or wireless radio link to the camera, plus frees up a second audio channel on the camcorder to take either the shotgun mic as a back-up source, or to feed two separate mics; one for the interviewer, one for the guest, or any other combination.

One thing I often do with studio recordings is devote both tracks to one source, but I deliberately make one channel louder and one softer, by several db. The theory there is that if you have to record without someone actively riding the audio levels, at least if you get a sudden loud spike in channel one, the track on channel 2 was recorded lower, and may be cleaner, to patch over the bad part. Conversely, when the talent suddenly talks too low, the other channel, set at a higher level, may have the better take on it. If your two audio channels are always identical, it only means you have identical copies of the mistakes and bad parts:-)


If the hand recorder has time code, you can jam-synch it to match the code generated by the camera; consult the manual for details. If the handy recorder doesn't jam-synch, set the camera and the recorder for free-running time-of-day time code, pre-set them with actual time of day clock settings, like 06:20:00 for 6:20AM in the morning, and you'll be "in the ballpark", cose enough to see the shape of the waveforms on the timeline and tweak the synch of the tracks that way.

"Time-of-day free-running time code" means that the display on the tape relates to the actual time of day, instead of an arbitrary zero when the camera started running... moreover, free-running means it keeps counting, even if you pause or stop the recording. That keeps all the footage easy to align by time of day, without needing to use obscure correction factors to figure out the differential between one set of time codes and another from multiple cameras.

One other plus for using time of day free-running time code is, it makes note taking easy. You can be anywhere in the venue, don't need to be right next to the camera; as long as you can hear what's going on, just look at your watch and make a note what the time was when the cool event of note happened... and you can go almost exactly right up to it later on playback. News guys work like this so the reporter can break away from the camera operator but still be able to know where the good sound bites are for the edit, just by glancing at their watch.


As to your question of synching on stage:
You can make a beep or noise while both camera and recorder are running. We don't usually carry a clapboard around any more, but on multicam shoots we'll have somebody come to the mic and make one obvious and loud hand-clap, while all recorders remain running and all cameras pointed at the clapping person. That becomes our initial synch point in post. It will be good enough, unless and until you stop a camera to re-load tape or change batteries. So run the longest tapes and longest-duration batteries you can, even run cams on AC power supplies if practical.


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Viking Jonsson
Re: Now I'm posting again... sorry. Shooting an event
on Aug 4, 2010 at 8:01:48 pm

Thank you.

I have thought of picking up the same audio in both channel with differences in levels. But then I have to set them both in the feed board, I earlier got a tip that said it's not a good idea to do so.

If there is any ground loop of any kind the audio can be doomed, because the ground loop sometimes is first heard in post.

Should I still consider to connect both the handy recorders XLR-ports to the feed board?
If I do, what should I do about line/mic-settings?

Named after Viking Eggeling


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Mark Suszko
Re: Now I'm posting again... sorry. Shooting an event
on Aug 5, 2010 at 2:41:30 pm

Generally, my experience has been that sound boards at venues usually have few outputs to spare, and a spare, unused mic level output is even more rare. By their nature, boards designed for PA work are more concerenced with distributing line level outputs. Take what you can get. If the cable run to the board from the recorder is short, do mic level. If the cable has to be long, do line level.


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Viking Jonsson
Re: Now I'm posting again... sorry. Shooting an event
on Aug 5, 2010 at 4:36:24 pm

Hello,
Thank You very much for helping me out.

I did not understand what you meant by
"If the cable run to the board from the recorder is short, do mic level. If the cable has to be long, do line level."

I would be thankful if You could explain it in a "for dummies-version"

Thank you again

Regards
V

Named after Viking Eggeling


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Mark Suszko
Re: Now I'm posting again... sorry. Shooting an event
on Aug 6, 2010 at 8:40:35 pm

You don't say how far from the mixing board your recorder or your camcorder will be. If the audio cable running to the recorder from the audio mixing board has to be a long one, then send audio thru it using line level impedance. If the cable distance is short, mic level should be fine. Mic level over longer cable runs can introduce extraneous noise more easily than line level. Be sure to use quality, grounded, XLR cables for the audio runs, and don't let the audio cable lay right alongside a power cable: if they have to cross, make them cross at 90-degree angles. Don't leave loops of audio cable laying over on top of power cables.


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Viking Jonsson
Re: Now I'm posting again... sorry. Shooting an event
on Aug 6, 2010 at 9:11:43 pm

Okay now I see. Thank You very much for your patience and tips. What would I do without Creative cow? :)

Regards
Viking

Named after Viking Eggeling


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