CREATIVE COW: Feedback Forum About Us Contact Us Support Articles

The name game

COW Forums : Letters to the COW Team

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
David Roth WeissThe name game
by on Dec 12, 2007 at 9:37:47 pm

Yippee!!! I suddenly noticed that you Cow people up in Paso had laid off the vino for a few minutes and changed the entire way personal names are displayed. I for one think its great to be back to real names again on the Cow. It can bad enough to be insulted, but when its by somebody named blutodude from nowhere, who calls himself a professional, it really sucks...

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.


Return to posts index

Tim WilsonRe: The name game
by on Dec 12, 2007 at 10:53:18 pm

Back in the day, we all knew each other, and we all used real names. There have always been some along the way, but as we approach 1.5 million posts, we felt strongly about requiring real names for 2 related reasons: the credibility of the Cow, and the accountability of its posters.

We're far from the first to require this, of course. As Ron has said to me several times, he and Kathlyn might have implemented this earlier if they'd known that the Cow was going to grow this big so fast. :-)

Two unexpected pleasures have also come out of this. One was that we've confirmed our belief that women make up a large percentage of our membership, and growing.

The other is that it's much easier to see the international makeup of the cow. Not geography as much as culture, since of course names have nothing to do with where people live more often than not.

Both of these bring out the third reason why we're requiring real names: that exact visibility. We want to foster connections between real humans who know each others' names.

It feels good to US to be doing this, and we're gratified to hear from so many people like you that you feel the same.

Best,
Tim



Tim Wilson, Creative Cow
My Cow Blog
Join my LinkedIn network


Return to posts index

SeamusRe: The name game
by on Dec 13, 2007 at 5:06:47 am

yikes..
Question.
Does this affect all previous posts that you have made?

I understand your reasoning but I do like my invisible cloak on the net. this is not so I can go around insulting people, its just a little personal distance from people I don't know from a bar of soap.

There is also the fact that SO many in the industry refer to this sight that it leaves open the very possibility that people you work with or could potentially work with know more about you than you care for.

In short.. I can't ask embarrassing questions about some tech stuff I should know but are a little unsure of when I know that someone could identify me in a professional sense. Thats not being sneeky or deceitful, thats just sensible, particularly as a freelancer. I don't want to be judged by what I say here, no matter how benign all my posts are, I'd rather be judged by the results I give to clients.

So if this is the way it goes now.. guess I'll quietly back out now and watch from the sidelines.



Return to posts index


Tim WilsonRe: The name game
by on Dec 13, 2007 at 10:05:24 am

Your new user name will have the old screen name in parentheses, ensuring continuity and searchability of old posts.

Please don't worry about asking questions. Why else would other industry folks be here if THEY didn't have questions? They're sure not coming here to humiliate anyone ELSE asking questions.

Besides, here are some people who I can think of who come to Cow to get help:

--Many, many Emmy winners

--a winner of a best documentary award at Sundance (picked up for major studio distribution). Sean Fine even provided a blurb for us saying how crucial the Cow is for his work, even asking questions from Uganda while on location

--Two DPs for major films and TV series including Friday Night Lights, X-Files, the recent Tin Man mini-series for Sci-Fi, The Green Mile...Those would be Todd McMullen and Tom Burstyn, both of whom have written whole articles that included mention of the help they've gotten from the Cow

--The winner of a lifetime achievement award from the cinematographer's guild

--The creator of the Max Headroom ad campaign for Coca Cola, also created the original Saturn launch campaign among others, Arthur Vibert

--a director of the original Star Trek among scores of others (Alan J.Levy, another guy who's provided a blurb)

--one compositor who's worked on Stranger Than Fiction and the new Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium with Dustin Hoffman (Pete O'Connel);

--another compositor for Ray, Traffic and others (Steve Wright, yet ANOTHER public blurber describing how useful the Cow has been for him)

--The winner of a technology Oscar (Pete Litwinowicz)
--and the assistant director for half a dozen Oscar-winning features in a 43 film career so far (David McGiffert)

Now that I've written those, I'm thinking of many others...if you want, I can reel off some more...but you get the idea. ALL of those guys have identified themselves publicly, and have been quite specific about the help they've received.

Not to be a weenie, but I'm asking anyway: are your credits bigger than theirs?

None of THOSE guys are embarrassed to be seen in the Cow, so you shouldn't be either.

And again, nobody reads all of our up to **1000** daily posts looking for people to hassle. People come here for help.

They also come for the community that's been built here, and is fostered by real names. We'd actually seen a dramatically upward trend in real names, and so have followed their lead.

I hope that addresses your concerns. If not, please write me following the link below.

Regards,
Tim Wilson
Creative Cow



Tim Wilson, Creative Cow
My Cow Blog
Join my LinkedIn network


Return to posts index

seamusRe: The name game
by on Dec 13, 2007 at 10:44:49 am

Ok , I'll use up my last Mr Invisible post to post here because I think its important to debate and have this discussion open for everyone...

I certainly don't pretend my credits would come close the list of people you have mentioned. I'm not in their league at all. But I still have concerns about standing nude in the spotlight of online forums, so to speak... Its not about me putting tickets on myself.

This website has been critical for my professional development. I have loved everything you guys have done and the time and patience of all the people who have answered my often silly questions, but my reservations extend to all online forums. It is not about me thinking too highly of myself at all, far from it. Its more a question of personal space and a little privacy online.
I certainly respect those who happily put their names to their posts, but I don't believe that should now be thrust upon everyone. It should be up to the individual to choose.

Every online forum has to deal with the issue of Trolls and all those who want to undermine the collective good of forums and I can certainly see where your coming from, but it seems a little presumptuous to assume that all of us agree to that.

Of course this is your forum to do with what you will, but please understand the reservations that some may have and that those reasons are not about wanting to undermine what you do, or thinking too highly of ourselves, it is simply not wanting to identify ourselves for our own reasons what ever they may be. And that should be respected.

Obviously this is now set in stone, but I thought it important to make the point in any case.

Over to you....


Return to posts index

Tim WilsonRe: The name game
by on Dec 13, 2007 at 3:05:22 pm

I can certainly see where your coming from, but it seems a little presumptuous to assume that all of us agree to that...

When the Cow started, the ONLY accounts were real names -- thousands and thousands of them in a shockingly short span. There was never any thought to articulating a rule requiring real names. They WERE the rule. The only exception we can think of was a guy who included his real name, real place of employment and the town where he lives in every post.

If there had been any notion of how quickly the Cow grew, the real name policy absolutely would have been in place much earlier.

We are hardly the first to take this position by the way. As much as we justly pride our industry leadership, this is an area where we're late.

If there are a handful of people -- you are the second we've heard from with this policy in place for over a week now -- choose not to associate their names with what they're willing to otherwise say, that's certainly their prerogative.

..it is simply not wanting to identify ourselves for our own reasons what ever they may be. And that should be respected.

I'm not sure why you think that. We think that standing by what you say is the most distinctive characteristic of accountability.

Yes, in the world of political discourse, I personally feel that anonymous speech is one of the rights we have to defend most vigorously. But that's in the context of fighting forces that have the power to crush us.

Here, we're a community dedicated to solving practical problems in a tightly defined space. We vigorously defend people's right to ask silly questions. This community was started because WE had basic questions whose answers simply weren't available anyplace else.

Finally, we take the issue of consent very seriously. But I hope you can understand that with Oscar and Emmy winners, and others at the highest level of accomplishment in our industry willing to post with real names, it's hard for us to support objections to having your name associated with what you say in public based on pride or bashfulness. We've also firmly demonstrated that we defend the newest of newbies.

So if we've demonstrated that there's no basis for fear, and shown that the biggest of wigs agree that there's no basis for shame, what's left?

Not that I feel that you have to justify your reasons to me or anyone else. I'm just saying that we feel that we've established such a level of trust that it's reasonable to ask for the same in return.

What am I missing?


Don't worry about continuing this conversation as Seamus, a name that would make tears of pride well up in my Irish father's eyes (and a name I'm fond of myself). You started a good-faith conversation, and I'm happy to continue it, honestly. I wouldn't consider ending it before you're ready, and you're the one who'll enable your real name by editing your profile.



Return to posts index


Tim KolbRe: The name game
by on Dec 14, 2007 at 1:31:58 am

I've always used my real name on all the forums I've participated in over the years...yes, lots of people seem to find me, but that's kind of the risk you take.

Nobody knows it all...I've posted questions in the last week...and I'm a host on a handful of forums here.

Being the person you want to be comes from a lot of effort and learning...and then giving back. The first part adds to your credibility as much as the second.

...but you have to be visible for the first part.



TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net


Return to posts index

seamusRe: The name game
by on Dec 14, 2007 at 7:28:01 am

I think you can still be a positive contribution to a forum without being identified. I'm still not convinced otherwise, but I guess I'm a minority opinion on this, and I accept that.

Without laboring the point, I feel that having a little anonymity on the net is a healthy thing and I have been in situations that being identified through the Cow would have become problematic in a professional sense (can I stress, not for any wrong doing or unprofessional behavior on my part, or for the most part anyone else).

Part of the concern is because of the sheer size of the community in the cow. I would have totally agreed to some identity when the cow was a small one horse town with some tumbleweed blowing down the main street. But this is now like a huge world city. It is so universal throughout the video community worldwide that the person next to you in the other edit/graphic work station is quite possibly logging on to the same discussion. For the most part thats fine. Just not all the time. Particularly as once something is on the net, it never leaves.

I feel this could be the case particularly with people just starting out and learning the ropes and having your name up there could be intimidating and therefore would be reluctant to contribute.

Anyway... these are just my ramblings.
Thanks for the discussion.


Return to posts index

Ron LindeboomRe: The name game
by on Dec 14, 2007 at 12:27:57 pm


[seamus] "I think you can still be a positive contribution to a forum without being identified. I'm still not convinced otherwise..."

We have never said anything to the contrary. But that is not the issue. The issue is that some people use anonymity as an excuse to do things that they would be far less likely to do if their own name is attached to the statement.

As this site has grown, the problem has exacerbated due to hundreds of thousands of people taking part in the site -- with well over a hundred thousand actively posting in the course of a year. Lately, we have seen more and more discourtesy across the forums and we have been trying to close the door on it. But when people can sign up as zkm557 and then, when they are shown the door, they come right back and sign up as zkm558 -- it is tough to maintain a sense of community here. So the decision was made to require real names.

Many sites have done this across the net and it is not a great solution but in our research, it seems to work and does indeed filter off much of the traffic from those who want to be trolls and such.

We have no doubt that people can and do contribute using names such as yours, Seamus. Again, I wish that were the point, but it simply isn't. The point is do we either preserve the sense of community that the COW has had for years, or do we watch it dissipate until one day the site becomes something that none of us wants to take part in?

We do not believe this is a perfect solution. But it is the best solution that we have under the circumstances.

We are not trying to make this an onerous thing for people but the COW's incredible sense of community must be preserved and so we are taking this step. We hope that you and others will take it with us. If you decide otherwise, we understand that and wish you well, please know that we have appreciated your participation in the meantime.

Thank you,

Best regards,


Ron Lindeboom
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ronlindeboom
Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
Join the COW's LinkedIn Group

Now in the COW Magazine: Commercials. A look at the history, strategy, techniques and production workflows of successful commercials. All brought to you by some of the COW's brightest members. Accept no substitutes!

Do you have your complimentary subscription to Creative COW Magazine yet?



Return to posts index


Tim WilsonRe: The name game
by on Dec 14, 2007 at 1:37:00 pm

But this is now like a huge world city. It is so universal throughout the video community worldwide that the person next to you in the other edit/graphic work station is quite possibly logging on to the same discussion.

Which is exactly why the heavy hitters I mentioned above are happy to identify themselves in the Cow. Everybody needs help. Nobody's above that.

For the most part thats fine. Just not all the time. Particularly as once something is on the net, it never leaves.

Again, this is where I'm not getting it. If you ask for help and say thank you when you receive it, what's the problem?

To me this continues to assume that somebody is looking for you and folks who don't want to post are afraid of either a) being perceived as somebody who's still learning in a rapidly evolving field; or b) will make fun of you, refuse to do business with you or something along those lines.

Any possibilities I'm missing, besides "well I just don't want to?" I'm not making fun of that position, btw. I'm just trying to summarize.

<1>I feel this could be the case particularly with people just starting out and learning the ropes and having your name up there could be intimidating and therefore would be reluctant to contribute.

This to me is the slam dunk, "Nellie bar the door" point -- in favor of our position.

We're getting scores, sometimes well into the hundreds, of new accounts every single business day.

And not one single peep from any of them. None. Our rates of registration are rising at exactly the same curve since we've instituted this, as have the number of overall posts.

Also, most new members post within minutes of joining, suggesting to me that the reason they join is to make that particular post.

You're the second person to raise this concern to us, so we assume that you represent more. One hundred people each? One thousand? If you represent 10,000 people each, it's still a minute fraction of our audience.

We can live minute fractions...especially because we don't believe that your position stands in for 10,000 people.

Oh, and that other person to raise the objection - a member of the Cow even longer than you've been.

In other words, this simply isn't an issue for newbies of any age. It's not an issue for Emmy winners, high-ranking crew for Oscar-winning features, lifetime achievement award winners for cinematography, and tens of thousands of others.

That's not to say that there aren't valid reasons. Have I heard one and missed it?

Still talking, :-)

Tim


Return to posts index

seamusRe: The name game
by on Dec 17, 2007 at 12:18:12 am


Oh well.
Obviously by the sheer volume of people falling in behind me and voicing their concern on this thread that I'm on a winner here! ;)

If its what you gotta do then its what you gotta do. I'll remain disappointed at the changes, but will always support the cow. Its obvious your intentions are good, but there are always two sides to anything. I hope I may have given some food for thought though on these changes though.

May your pastures always be green fellow bovines. :)







Return to posts index

David Roth WeissRe: The name game
by on Dec 17, 2007 at 12:50:25 am

Seamus,

As you grow older, wiser, and perhaps more cynical, you suddenly realize that the world is not looking at you. If you want to be stared at, go find a mirror.

If you're lucky in this lifetime you will be remembered for your contributions and for helping others, the rest all turns to dust, and no one gets out alive.

David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.


Return to posts index


Tim KolbRe: The name game
by on Dec 14, 2007 at 1:34:30 am

[David Roth Weiss] "It can bad enough to be insulted, but when its by somebody named blutodude from nowhere, who calls himself a professional, it really sucks..."

Ummmm.... sorry. "Popeyedude" was taken and I don't really see myself as an Oliveoyle (sp?)



TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net


Return to posts index

David Roth WeissRe: The name game
by on Dec 14, 2007 at 2:02:02 am

[Tim Kolb] "Popeyedude" was taken and I don't really see myself as an Oliveoyle"

Ah, but Tim, I suspect Sweetpeadude may be wide open... You should jump at it, or crawl perhaps?, as I don't think Sweetpea ever managed to walk. Poor guy/girl... or whatever. Serously now, what was Sweetpea???

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.


Return to posts index

Tim KolbRe: The name game
by on Dec 14, 2007 at 3:36:57 am

[David Roth Weiss] "Serously now, what was Sweetpea???"

To REALLY go into the wayback machine...I think Sweetpea was a Jeep...(the character the vehicle was named after).





TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net


Return to posts index


David Roth WeissRe: The name game
by on Dec 17, 2007 at 12:30:14 am

[Tim Kolb] "I think Sweetpea was a Jeep..."

Don't think so... The Jeep was an alien or some mytical beastie I think. But Sweetpea was an infant, of somewhat dubious sexuality, that was conceived, albeit immaculately, by Popeye and Olive.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.


Return to posts index

Post removed.

Post removed.


Post removed.

Post removed.

Post removed.


Post removed.

Post removed.

Post removed.


Post removed.

Post removed.

Post removed.

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2016 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]