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Re: Editing HVX 1080 24p Normal to HDCAM delivery

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George Burbano
Re: Editing HVX 1080 24p Normal to HDCAM delivery
on Mar 25, 2008 at 2:33:21 pm

Oh boy this is going to be long, but here goes....

(I made a number of really bad decisions when making this short I am currently trying to edit. I only had the Panasonic HVX 200 for a short amount of time, and was not able to test the editing process before shooting - hence I shot in 1080 24p normal to P2 cards, and then transfered the files to an external hard drive, when I should have shot 1080 24pA.)

Well the difference between the 24P and 24PA mode is very little. The decision to shoot in one vs the other is made primarily on how the delivery of the shoot will be.

24P will always look better on a 59.94 timeline. Remember that NTSC video does not run at 30fps (29.97) Tape runs at 59.94

In order for 24fps (23.98) to run on tape a 2:3 pulldown is applied. The hvx applies a in camera pulldown to change 24fps into 60 fields..(59.94) This is the same way we see movies that were shot on film, in tv or on dvd.. They apply the same technology.

(When I first started messing around with the clips in FCP CS2 at my school, the clips looked so good that I didn't realize until just now that I have been looking at them in a 29.97 DVCPRO HD timeline, and they are in fact interlaced.)

Again, the actual timeline is 59.94 Just so you know , video shot with the hvx at 24P will look better than video shot at 24PA, when played back on tv or in dvd. Its just that 24P footage is slightly more compressed than 24PA but will be smoother on a 60 timeline....

(Needless to say, this is my first HD project, and only my second 24p project, so I am feeling hopeless. What I want is the best possible looking end result to transfer to HDCAM to screen theatrically, but if the best means interlaced, progressive, 29.97 or 23.98, I have no clue.)

Actually what you may have wanted to do from the begining is to shoot in 720P. Why Hdcam>>See 1080 is always interlaced, to make it progressive you have to apply an additional decompress and recompress. Which is why most people will say that there is very little difference for the extra work involved in dealing with 1080. 720 is always progressive.... you can edit 1080-24PA on a 24P timeline but this involves much more work. and like you said it will be jerky... But if you edit it on a 60fps (53.94) it will be nice and smooth..

(I tried the Cinetools reverse telecine on some clips, and while they are not interlaced anymore, they are very jittery. Is there a better way to convert my 1080i 24p normal clips to be progressive and 23.98? Maybe I did it wrong?)

This is going to happen because of the way that the pulldown is aplied. When cinetools is used, what you are doing is applying a 2:3 pulldown to interlaced footage that was shot at 24fps. This is not an efficient way to do this. So you are right here, you needed to shoot the footage at 24PA. The result would be much cleaner on a 24P timeline.

There are a variety of different ways to convert this footage, but why would you want to. If you are going to display it on a screen, you are much better off staying with the footage the way it was. It will look much better on tape in the normal 60fps (59.94) timeline. You would only really need to worry about this if you are going to output to real film..And both can be blown up to film.

(So... what i would love to know is the whole import, edit, and export process as recommended by somebody who has dealt with this. I have looked at endless postings and workflow tutorials, and none deal with this in detail.)

If you are going to end up on tape or dvd, shoot 1080Pa, only if you are going to use a program that will deal with PA. Of course most software does nowadays, so this isnt much of a problem. This way when you work on a 24fps timeline it will keep the original 24frames without recompressing them, and the video will still not look as smooth as had it been kept on a 60fps timeline (59.94)

1. What setup do i use in my project when doing the "Log and Transfer" to get my clips into FCP?

ans: it depends on how you shoot it and what you are going to do with it. I personally recomend shooting at 720 24P.
2. What sequence setting and timebase do I edit in?

If you are using 1080 24ps, and want it to be on a 24fps timeline, be very careful how you shoot. Lighting appropriately and shooting it carefully with slow smooth pans, etc. will look better. Any sudden movements will create a very jittery video. If you need to shoot any type of action, then shoot at 1080 30fps. It will much smoother, and still look close to film.There is no pulldown here....

3. What method do I use to export a DVCPRO HD quicktime file for the post company to transfer to HDCAM?
The company should be able to give you guidelines on this, but going to hdcam which is a tape based system, would require you to stay on a 60I timeline. (59.94) Not Im not an expert on this but I spent literally almost 4mos, testing this and learning about how this camera works and what works for what is needed.
4. Is HDCAM 29.97 ever better than 23.98?
Better???? Matter of opinion. HDcam is a higher (theoretically) format but it is designed for 1920x1080i 60fps (53.94) video.If you apply 24fps to this, you are going to end up with jittery footage, unless, it is very smoothly and accurately shot. Again, you may want to shoot 1080 30P.

And, to make everything worse, my school is set up for HDV, so we have a Blackmagic card for viewing on the HD monitor. What external Video Playback settings should I use. To play back to the monitor, you would need to make sure you have your blackmagic card set for dvcprohd, and output thru the component cables to the in on the monitor,...This shouldnt be a problem, with your blackmagic card...But check the documentation...

Im not picking on you, but it is not the school that is setup for HDV... Your software and or final cut may be preset to work in HDV, but that can easily be changed. Just select the right presets, or create your own.Your timeline can also be preset or select your own. HDV is a very tough format to work with, it is highly compressed, and comes with its own set of problems. In My opinion, and again Im not an expert, DVCProHD is a much better format to shoot in, and the HVX presents with many opportunities....

I know this is a lot to ask at once, but I am desperate! Tomorrow, I am going to simply try editing in DVCPRO HD 29.97, and see how I feel about the interlacing, because I can't see how to make the clips true 24p and look good.

Forget about interlaced or progressive, concentrate on your technique, your story, your sound.. When people come out of a theater they dont wonder if the movie was shot in high def, on an HVX or on a Genesis... They just want to be entertained. you can achieve this on Interlaced or progressive. But if you are going to go to film, you definately want to make the right choice.. and.. check your bank account...Cause unless you have a film that can make you money or some investors, it is costly to go to film..



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