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Re: NO p2 for me! Forget it!

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Jan Crittenden
Re: NO p2 for me! Forget it!
on Apr 4, 2005 at 8:40:53 pm

Hi Peter,

You said: I know we could keep the dialog civil, and maybe even I'd learn a thing or two.

Ha! Ha! Ha! That is rich! No offense to you but I feel that this is probably wishful thinking. We can't even keep it civil and they aren't here. It is quite amazing to me that people can be so rude in their replies and I am not referring to anything you have said. I sometimes am tempted to ask, if they were standing in front of me would you address me that way?

>Now, back to our regularly-scheduled program, "The Thread That Ate The New Jersey Turnpike", Chapter Two: The Doubters Have At It Again!, where our heroine (fashionably attired, gazing at her computer screen with a look of composure, but also with some disapproval) was saying:

Now I see there here you read that into my words, given me a great wardrobe, so perhaps I am just as guilty and didn't put in enough melodrama, but if you were standing in front of me I would say pretty much the same thing, but you would see my face and know that I was just challenging you not dissing you. There is no way that I would sit and watch something frame for frame twice. I wouldn't do it and frankly I think it is a little unbelievable that you wouldn't find an easier way to do this.

>I hear you, but of course in most cases there won't be World Bank class data management --

Okay so maybe the World Bank was too high.

A>s I said before, I don't trust a computer any farther than I can throw it. Well, maybe a few feet further, but that's my limit.

But I do check on PowerPoint presentations and other documents that I find would be outstandingly inconvenient if they were lost. I check the file manager in Windows to see if they are the same size and move on. Perhaps that fact is really that you are just not looking at is as data. I do back up as it is important to understand the details of data world, but once we are there, boy life becomes much easier.

>Sure, backup systems usually work wonderfully well most of the time. Let's say they work correctly 99.99% of the time ... actually, Panasonic might even publish a "9s" statistic for their new P2 hardware; if so, it would be interesting to see.

So far I have found the only time my back up system didn't work was when I didn't do it.

>as a result Jan will be able to retire early!

In my wildest dreams! Please!

>The result is potentially (yes: only potentially) a somewhat random scattering of a not insignificant number of irretrievably lost original recorded frames, all over the world. And that's just what's _automatically_ lost in the process of the _required_ step of backing-up the P2 cards.

Hey the back up is either a tape or data. You can ask which is more reliable. Frankly I find my computer and its back to be the more reliable. And I always know where it is.

>Whereas, if the original recording was done on videotape, all of the original frames -- good frames as well as dropouts, creases, warped cassettes, and so forth -- would be happily sitting on a shelf, waiting for an archivist to retrieve them.

Or it is simply transferred to another source and the archivist can retrieve a lot more quickly as the archive can be interface to the database and the database can be funded by the metadata.

> In practice, dropouts, etc. are fairly infrequent, so maybe videotape is 99.99% reliable? I don't know. BUT MOST PRODUCTION WORKFLOWS DON'T REQUIRE ERASING THE ORIGINAL FOOTAGE. (Sorry for shouting, but that's the main point.)

I have seen more dropouts on tape that I have seen in my computer. And if you are going to shout, count to ten. This is supposed to be a civil conversation. Remember? ;-)

>Sure, TV news organizations may erase videotapes willy-nilly, but most other video production workflows don't. And although I'm sure Panasonic will continue to succeed selling P2 into TV news, the new, additional market push is elsewhere -- everywhere else -- where almost no one routinely erases original work on videotape and film.

You are not erasing your work; you are moving the work to elsewhere.

>I think there's an order of magnitude difference between those two scenarios, TV new vs. everything else.

I would say that you are correct, every arena has a workflow, but you keep looking at it from one view, and that is that you are erasing the work, no, you just moved it. Check it. Is it there? Yes? Then move on.

>Perhaps if we wrote 86,400 words per hour we might give it more thought. And care.

I do care and I do check.

>I'm not implying the Panasonic hasn't given P2 enough thought or care, but rather perhaps its implications haven't been well thought out by most non-TV news shooters.

Oh it has been given careful thought. The point is that you cannot approach it the same way as you do tape, or you will never leave tape behind. You have to do that paradigm shift thing. Think different! our friends at Apple say, I say think differently.

>P2-style media (including other frequently-erased media, such as hard drive-based acquisition) is long overdue. Managing the transition to it and reliably managing its dataflow will require a "World Bank"-level of effort if we're to avoid losing irretrievable chunks of history and culture.

Oh I think that is extreme. I think that anyone that is in the business of working the reality shows knows what they go through and how many times the stuff gets copied and dubbed and put into this computer and transferred to that one, it is a data management nightmare. Hey the point is that if we just look at it from the perspective, if I want to manage this, I will figure out a way. And I could be a small station in Illinois, and independent in NYC or a production company doing a 14 show reality series in LA. If I want to figure out how to manage my data I will. Just like if I want to find that PowerPoint that I was working on yesterday. Now where did I put it?...

Please understand, I am not saying that your feelings are illogical, I am only saying that you need to think about things differently or you will not be able to make the transition away from tape.

Best regards,


Jan M. Crittenden
Product Manager, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, AG-DVX100
Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems

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