Apple Final Cut Pro Legacy Forum
Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Borjis on Jun 11, 2007 at 9:05:40 pm


I'm posting this here because it is happening in final cut 6.

I have a number of .motn files I use as slates.

I always render them in final cut because my workflow is most efficient this way.

These slates are 8 seconds long.

does not matter if they are saved as motion 3 or previous motion 2 .motn files.

These 8 second slates take 12 minute to render which is completely absurd as they only took a few seconds before.

Anyone know how to fix this?

I'd like to not have to render them all out from now on, this should work as it did before.




Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by lasvideo on Jun 11, 2007 at 10:51:09 pm

View the thread I started a few days ago in this forum. Please post your experience at
http://www.appleinsider.com/ .Its a pretty major bug thats preventing my facilities purchase
of multiple seats of FCP for use with clients.


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by lasvideo on Jun 11, 2007 at 10:52:09 pm

It was called "Final Cut - Motion Rendering".


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Borjis on Jun 11, 2007 at 11:03:14 pm


which forum?

Can't find your post and they don't have a search function (forums that have no search option should be flogged)





Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by lasvideo on Jun 11, 2007 at 11:06:04 pm

In this forum ...Final Cut Pro...
"Finla Cut - Motion Rendering by lasvideo on Jun 10, 2007 at 5:23:58 am"


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Borjis on Jun 11, 2007 at 11:28:27 pm



weird, I don't see a forum dedicated to final cut pro, only "applications"




Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Borjis on Jun 11, 2007 at 11:32:20 pm


Ah, I found it on this page in this forum but
it was "Finla Cut - Motion Rendering"






Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Borjis on Jun 12, 2007 at 1:02:54 am


it said something about changing the motion tab quality to from best to normal.

I tried that, it STILL takes 12 minutes to render an 8 second .motn file that should only be a few seconds to render (was on 5.04)





Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by JeremyG on Jun 12, 2007 at 1:07:19 am

Is this an old Motion project?

If so, what happens when you totally recreate the Motion project in Motion 3?


Jeremy


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by lasvideo on Jun 12, 2007 at 1:13:23 am

Jeremy, mine was a brand new motion project. Here are the details...
Something is definately bogus with how long FCP takes to render an imbedded Motion 3 projects,
1. NTSC Broadcast format set in FCP6
2. 7 sec. clip sent to Motion
3. Two Titles and simple particle effect to reveal one of the titles.
4. Motion set to NTSC Broadcast format
5. Render takes 7 sec.
6. Save project, switch to FCP6
7. Render is FCP6 takes 20 mins for 5 sec clip.
Whats up with that?


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by lasvideo on Jun 12, 2007 at 1:29:36 am

FYI Computer - Dual 2.5 PowerPC G5 1.5 DDR SDRAM 10.4.9 Qucktime 7.1.6


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Oliver Peters on Jun 12, 2007 at 2:11:23 am

[lasvideo] "1.5 DDR SDRAM"

WHAT???!!! Bump that up to at least 4GB. I'm running 2GB on my PBG4. Figure 2GB per processor or core.

Sincerely,
Oliver


Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
www.oliverpeters.com


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by walter biscardi on Jun 12, 2007 at 11:59:33 am

[Oliver Peters] "[lasvideo] "1.5 DDR SDRAM"

WHAT???!!! Bump that up to at least 4GB. I'm running 2GB on my PBG4. Figure 2GB per processor or core."


Absolutely agree. 1.5 is too little for FC Studio. 4GB minimum.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Herb Sevush on Jun 12, 2007 at 1:58:48 pm

Walter -

While lasvideo might need more memory, that is not the cause of the problem. Many users are having this problem including me - and I have 5 Gigs in a G5 2.5 Dual. Files that rendered in FCP 5 in seconds are now taking 20 to thirty minutes. The same Motion 3 file that Final Cut took 3 HOURS to render was rendered directly out of Motion in under a minute. Something is definitely wrong with the render engine in FCP6.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by lasvideo on Jun 12, 2007 at 3:06:33 pm

That may be true, but it doesnt explain how Boris has exactly the same issue with long renders with FCP6 and embedded Motion 3 projects... and he has 4 gigs of ram!


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by JeremyG on Jun 12, 2007 at 2:22:01 am

What graphics card?


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by lasvideo on Jun 12, 2007 at 3:00:39 am

ATI Radeon 9600 XT


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Borjis on Jun 12, 2007 at 3:21:14 am


I did try a totally new motion 3 project, same issue, there is something definitely wrong here.



Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by JeremyG on Jun 12, 2007 at 4:42:43 am

And you BOris, what graphics card do you have?


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Borjis on Jun 12, 2007 at 4:46:21 am

[JeremyG] "And you BOris, what graphics card do you have?"

The stock NVIDIA card that comes with the G5 Quad PCI-E model.



Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by JeremyG on Jun 12, 2007 at 4:51:47 am

HOw much RAM?

FCS2 recommends at least 2 GB, but preferably 4GB.

And one of these graphics cards for Motion:

Motion
One of the following graphics cards is highly recommended:
ATI Radeon X1900 XT, X850 XT, X800 XT, or X1600
NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT, 6800 Ultra DDL, 6800 GT DDL, or Quadro FX 4500
For 32-bit rendering: a graphics card with 256MB of VRAM or more





Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Borjis on Jun 12, 2007 at 5:06:44 am

[JeremyG] "HOw much RAM?"

4GB of Ram.

The video card should have very little if anything to do with it.

I'm rendering the .motn file IN final cut, not in motion 3 where I could understand a fast card would speed up previews.

It rendered the .motn file in final cut 5.04 within 5 seconds before.
Final Cut 6 is the only thing that has changed.


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Borjis on Jun 12, 2007 at 5:08:54 am


if it helps to understand the issue, I CAN render it out as an uncompressed quicktime in about 30 seconds from motion 3, but thats a hassle when I have a :30 & :15 tv spot that delivers in multiple markets where the only change is the end tag and the slate.



Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by John Pale on Jun 12, 2007 at 1:59:50 pm

Grasping at straws....It may have to do with the location of your Motion content (which is different in FCS2)...which I assume is where your particles are coming from. Try resetting that and try repairing your permissions.




Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by lasvideo on Jun 12, 2007 at 3:01:56 pm

Prefs trashed and permissions repaired. FCP6 still has problematic long render of embedded motion file. As Boris said, this seems unique to FCP6, since FCP5 rendered this project at a much faster rate.


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Devin Crane on Jun 12, 2007 at 3:37:37 pm

It's not prefs, or the card, or the ram, or anything other than FCP6 neeind to have this fixed. It is only utillizing 100% of the processors instead of 180%-190% like it use to use before FCP6. It's the code.

I've had the same problem with a 4x3ghz Mac Pro 1900xt card, 4GB ram, Xserve Raid. And takes 7hours to render an SD 58:30 with 20 .motn files overlayed on the timeline. Use to take 1 hour.


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by gary adcock on Jun 12, 2007 at 4:32:45 pm

The video card should have very little if anything to do with it.

but the graphics cards do in the new versions of FCP

I saw 5X faster difference rendering out 1080 444 content in Color with the x1900xt over the stock Nvidia 7300 in the same machine.

Motion is no different.




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Devin Crane on Jun 12, 2007 at 4:54:53 pm

The card may have a difference in rendering but the problem is not with the card, I have the same card, but is taking 5x as long to render the same project in FCP6 than it did in 5.1.4


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by lasvideo on Jun 12, 2007 at 5:22:03 pm

As stated by Devin...
"is taking 5x as long to render the same project in FCP6 than it did in 5.1.4"

Yes, this seems to be the crux of the problem. Excessive FCP6 rendering of embedded Motion 3 projects.
Tom



Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Oliver Peters on Jun 12, 2007 at 6:51:28 pm

Does this behavior vary with the type of effects used in the Motion projects? Particles or not? What is the timeline setting and does the original Motion project match it or is there another conversion going on?

Sincerely,
Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
www.oliverpeters.com


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Herb Sevush on Jun 12, 2007 at 7:50:09 pm

Gary -

For the record I have a Dual 2.5 G5 with 5 gigs and a Radeon X800 XT - which means I'm NOT underpowered in any way. And yet ...

FCP6 is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, Insanely Much slower to render Motion Files than was version 5. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether Intel Mac's have this problem as well, or is it strictly G5's seeing this issue.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Devin Crane on Jun 12, 2007 at 8:03:05 pm

I'm having the same problem on a Quad 3ghz Mactel and a ATI 1900xt card. The motion files consist of a shape with a mask for the background and some text with text behaviors added to them.


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Borjis on Jun 12, 2007 at 8:43:17 pm

[Herb Sevush] "For the record I have a Dual 2.5 G5 with 5 gigs and a Radeon X800 XT - which means I'm NOT underpowered in any way. And yet ..."

my point exactly.

This has absolutely nothing to do with openGL performance, its all about cpu cycles and there is definitely something wrong here that apple needs to address ASAP.

One thing I have not tried, apparently you can import motion files as some kind of modifiable template (text) I am going to try that and see if that helps at all.





Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by lasvideo on Jun 13, 2007 at 1:28:03 am

Everyone who has experienced this major issue, please document the problem
with Apple at http://www.apple.com/feedback/ in the Final Cut Pro category.
This will insure they are aware of the issue and our concerns.


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Borjis on Jun 13, 2007 at 11:52:41 pm


I submitted.

Also just an fyi, the templates inside final cut pro that reference motion files has the EXACT same problem as using motion files imported.

12 minutes to render an 8 second slate.




Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by lasvideo on Jun 14, 2007 at 1:00:36 am

Yes Boris.I confirm your observation with my own experience.


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Oliver Peters on Jun 14, 2007 at 12:51:41 pm

[Borjis] "the templates inside final cut pro that reference motion files has the EXACT same problem as using motion files imported."

Not what I'm seeing.

The tests I ran were only slightly longer than rendering Animation in Motion3 versus rendering a Motion3 template in FCP6. Of course, if you add rendering the movie file in Animation codec again on the FCP6 timeline, the combined total would be about the same.

Do you possibly have two instances of FCP or Motion installed (old and FCS2)?

Sincerely,
Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
www.oliverpeters.com


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by lasvideo on Jun 14, 2007 at 3:07:38 pm

Not in my case. I did a erase and install of the newest Tiger before doing a full install of FCS2.


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by Dan Powers on Jun 21, 2007 at 11:25:55 pm

It's not just motion. FCP 6 is much slower. I have been rendering clips all week long on the previous version 5, just compression exports and they were running 11 minutes. Now after upgrading they are 1 hour! This sucks bigtime. I have deadlines!
I followed all the rules. First upgrade OS to latest version 10.4.10 from 10.4.5 also upgraded QT to latest version then did the upgrade to FC Studio 2. This is really a dog. I am on a Quad G5 2.5 with 4 gigs ram. It is rendering like a single G3!


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by macdabby on Jun 27, 2007 at 7:30:35 pm

I think this is just a bug in the software on PPC systems. I have a project with a 10 second long motion file - it is basic text, a small image, and a little it of motion. Its a motion 3 file and FCP2. I put it into a FCP sequence, and tried to render it. On my dual G5 2ghz/4gig ram it takes 10 minues - on my less equiped quad 3ghz xeon with 2gig, it takes 10 seconds - granted the PPC is a faster machine, its not 60x faster and should not account for that much of a speed difference. Hopefully apple will fix this soon - i'll report it on their bug page.


Re: Motion 8 sec clip...12 minute render?!?!?
by lasvideo on Jun 28, 2007 at 1:23:08 am

Well, it does my heart good to hear that on your Intel machine the very same file is very fast.
I guess my plans for an 8 Core when Leopard comes out are still in my future. The dog slowness on my G5 dual made me doubt the wiseness of using this software for professional use with my clients...Im still waiting.





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