AJA Video Systems Forum
Video freezes every minute or so during capture.
Video freezes every minute or so during capture.
by Nick Balogh on Jan 5, 2006 at 8:09:28 pm

I just installed the Kona LH with breakoutbox into my mac G-5. I am trying to capture HD Vericam footage through my Panasonic DVCPRO deck. Footage is shot in 24p and some in 60p. I have been trying to import a complete 46 minute tape by logging it first then importing the entire footage. During playback the video freezes about every minute. not excactly the same amount of time each freeze. Im using the the SDI imput and outputs of the deck and capture card with the FCP AJA Kona LH: 525 29.97 8bit settings. I will upres to 720p later but I want that size for editing. Is this a problem with the SDI? or capture Settings?



Re: Video freezes every minute or so during capture.
by David Battistella on Jan 5, 2006 at 10:37:30 pm

What slots are your cards in?

Maybe you could put the ATTo in Slot 4 and the LH in 1 2 or 3.

It sounds like a card/drive throughport issue to me.

David



The new year is over


Re: Video freezes every minute or so during capture.
by Bob Zelin on Jan 6, 2006 at 12:11:36 am

David is corect - you have a card slot or drive issue. Specify what drives you have, what host controller you have, what card slot order you are using.
We will tell you if they will work with 8 bit uncompressed.

Bob Zelin



Re: Video freezes every minute or so during capture.
by Nick Balogh on Jan 6, 2006 at 1:21:19 am

I have the Kona LH card in slot 2....slot 1 is used for the monitors. I put the Fibre channel card for my apple 3.5tb Raid in slot 4. It still has problems capturing in the uncompressed 8 bit file format. It freezes in random places. Doesnt matter if i capture 4 minutes or 45 minutes. I can capture using the DV/DVCPRO NTSC compressor just fine but the file size is really small which makes it harder to do some blue screen effects. I am also having issues capturing 60fps vericam footage using the HDSDI inputs with the AJA Kona LH: 720p 59.94 8 bit settings. It stutters as well. This is actually why I started trying it with the standard def settings in the first place....I figure its all part of the same problem.

I appreciate the help.


Re: Video freezes every minute or so during capture.
by Bob Zelin on Jan 6, 2006 at 2:05:07 am

Hi Nick -
the older Apple FC cards ran at 66MHz, so unless you just bought it, put the Apple FC card in slot 2 or 3, and the AJA Kona LH in slot 4. I ASSUME that your drives are striped as one big RAID array, and that you have more than 4 drives stripped together (since you say that you have 3.5 TB, which if you have at least 7 drives, you should have no trouble doing DVCPro or SD uncompressed). With 7 drives (or more), you should have NO PROBLEMS doing DVCProHD either. I ASSUME you have used EASY SETUP to setup your FCP, and not manually selected things from the Audio/Video and Sequence settings - correct ?

Certainly, right now, use the AJA Kona System Test in the Kona Utiiltes folder, and run it. Select 10 bit 720x486, and pick a 4 Gig file size. What are your read and write speeds ? If for some reason you can't find AJA Kona System Test on your MAC, download it NOW from the aja.com/support site.

Bob Zelin



Re: Video freezes every minute or so during capture.
by David on Jan 6, 2006 at 3:01:36 am

Nick,

I'm surprised the experts missed this one. You're using an XRaid right? Go into the performance tab in Raid Admin and UNCHECK the middle option which I believe is "allow host cache flushing" or something like that (I'm not in front of my computer at teh moment) That WILL fix your problem BUT you'll need to reset this each time you reboot. Not sure why it won't hold the settings but it doesn't. Please email us back to let us know if that worked.

David


Re: Video freezes every minute or so during capture.
by Nick Balogh on Jan 6, 2006 at 3:46:45 am

Allright everyone. I moved my KONA to slot 4 moved my Apple FC to slot 3. I turned off "allow Host Flushing in the RAID Admin for my xServe. I tested the the KONA read/write speeds for my xServe. The Write speed is 74.8 mb/s and the Read is 186.6 mb/s. I recorded 10 minutes of footage using AJA KONA:Uncompressed 8 bit 4:2:2 setting and it played great. No lag at all. Im now going to try a whole tape then i will try 720p uncompressed 8bit and see if this fixed the whole problem.

Again thanks for everyones help. I will keep you posted.




Re: Video freezes every minute or so during capture.
by Bob Zelin on Jan 6, 2006 at 10:02:23 pm

Your problem is not fixed. There is something wrong with your XServe RAID. The XServe RAID is a very fast unit. I use SATA drives all the time, and one
SATA drive gets about 60mb/sec (both read and write) and 2 SATA drives striped together get 120mb/sec with burst speeds up to 135mb/sec.

I worked on an Apple XServe RAID the other day with "only" 6 drives in it, and I got 230mb/sec performance. Your drive array is barely moving. It's making me question if your drives are in a RAID 5 configuration at all, and if all of your drives are being used. It is my opinion that if you do nothing (becuase it's working), as your drive array gets more and more full, you will start to get "drop frame errors". Using RAID Admin, you should rebuild the RAID array, and then use Apple Disk Utility to reinit the drives - if you have drives on both sides of the XServe, stripe both sides together. You ABSOLUTELY will get dramatically better performance from an XServe RAID than 74.8mb/sec, even if you only have 4 drives stripped together.

Bob Zelin



Re: Video freezes every minute or so during capture.
by Nick Balogh on Jan 7, 2006 at 8:36:13 pm

I double checked how everything was set up. I am running a RAID 5 configuration with 7 drives on each side striped together creating one big hardrive on my desktop. I called and checked with my Pro applecare guy and he said its running normal write speeds. So im sure if i should have someone come out here and check it or keep working?


Well its still happening....
by Nick Balogh on Jan 8, 2006 at 2:30:04 am

So after a day of inputting footage its starting to freeze again. I dont know what my options are at this point just short of reinstalling everything and re formating and re-striping the drives. Ideas?



Re: Well its still happening....
by Bob Zelin on Jan 8, 2006 at 4:07:31 pm

Nick -
1) when you say that it's starting to freeze again- freeze only when you do an edit to tape, or freeze while you are PLAYING BACK material that you captured. Disk drives that are not fast enough will "freeze" or stutter the playback, just from simple playback. I was under the impression from you that the only problem was when you edit to tape.

2) you state -
called and checked with my Pro applecare guy and he said its running normal write speeds. So im sure if i should have someone come out here and check it or keep working?

This is PROOF that Pro Applecare is run by a bunch of incompetant idiots. You don't get 708Mb/sec write speed with an Apple XServe RAID with 14 drives in a Raid 50 configuration. If this was true, you could never do uncompressed 10 bit HDSDI capture onto an XServe RAID. Apple is filled with incompetance in their support department, and this is proof of it.

You may have many issues going on with your system, but I can assure you that if you have 14 drives in a RAID 50 config, and get these slow read and write speeds using AJA Kona System test, then there is something DEFINATELY wrong with your system.

I realize how frustrating this is for you, but when you say "after digitzing all day, it's starting to freeze again" - you must be specific of what is freezing - simple playback which you see on the MAC screens, or only during edit to tape.

In my opinion, you have major drive issues, based on your information.

bob Zelin



Re: Well its still happening....oops
by Bob Zelin on Jan 8, 2006 at 4:09:35 pm

I made a typing mistake in my last post - I said 708mb/sec (which is more than fast enough), when I meant to type 70mb/sec write speed (which is about what you said you were getting).

Sorry -
bob zelin



Re: Well its still happening
by Nick Balogh on Jan 8, 2006 at 5:05:31 pm

The freeze is happening when I capture. After the capture I always check to see if it captured correctly. When I play it back I notice it freezes during playback. I can tell it happens during the capture process because I can play that same section where it freezes over and over and it will always freeze in those same spots. It plays the footage back like it was shot that way. So something is hanging up when I capture the footage. I am also having issue where after I log a tape, I will go to capture that footage and it will tell me my tape has up to ten or so timecode breaks which is strange since its one continuous shot. There shouldn


Re: Well its still happening....
by gary adcock on Jan 8, 2006 at 6:04:53 pm

[Nick Balogh] "So after a day of inputting footage its starting to freeze again. I dont know what my options are at this point just short of reinstalling everything and re formating and re-striping the drives. Ideas?"


Please tell us you do NOT have journaling on.
your drives are fast enough to capture the footage you are writing.
you have nothing running in the background
--- itunes, norton utilites/systemworks/ you are connected to the net running a duplicate or unlicensed copy of FCP ----

anything that is not being used is not turned on.
No CD or DVDS in machine

Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA



Re: Well its still happening....
by Nick Balogh on Jan 8, 2006 at 6:24:46 pm

Im not sure what Journaling is...so i dont know if its turned on or not. I have no other applications running annd no other duplicate programs on the network.


Re: Well its still happening....
by gary adcock on Jan 8, 2006 at 6:47:21 pm

[Nick Balogh] "Im not sure what Journaling is...so i dont know if its turned on or not. I have no other applications running annd no other duplicate programs on the network."

Journaling is an enhanced directory structure that allows Spotlight to operate efficiently, the process is time and data intensive
when we are talking about large volumes like your xraid.
Check in the disk utility to see if journalling is on which is most likely - since you did not know about it, you did not know to turn of off for volumes when using them for video capture.



Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA



Re: Well its still happening....
by Nick Balogh on Jan 8, 2006 at 6:49:28 pm

I checked in the Disk Utility and under format it says : Mac OS Extended (Journaled)...so im assuming its journaled. Do i have to reformat and re RAID my xServe to get rid of that?


Re: Well its still happening....
by David Battistella on Jan 8, 2006 at 7:51:10 pm



this has been a good thread. There is only one other thing I can think of. I can tell you that one thing that will cause freeze ups in NETWORK ACTIVITY. I have found that if there are programs running in the background that are using the network you can run into problems when capturing or playing back.

Is anyone accessing the drives on a network? Is your file sharing on?

The only time I have seen things like this is when I have had software update runnig in the BG or soemthing during an output.

Besides this you are getting awful performance out of your raid if it is running at 70mb/sec.

My Huge 4210 Drive full populared in a raid 3 with 4gig fiber gets close to 480-520 read writes. So something is most definitely wong with the RAID card/setup.

Slot 4 for drives
Slot three for KONA Card

David



The new year is over


Re: Well its still happening....
by Nick Balogh on Jan 8, 2006 at 8:06:02 pm

Wow....so we all agree I


Re: Well its still happening....
by Bob Zelin on Jan 8, 2006 at 10:13:39 pm

you cannot just turn off journaling. you must reformat your drives as OS-X Entended - NOT OS-X Extended (Journaled). And YES, you will lose all your material, and YES, it's a nightmare.

DO NOT PROCEED WITH ANYTHING until you see over 200Mb/sec from your XServe RAID as viewed by AJA Kona System Test. You should get dramatically better performance than 200mb/sec with 14 drives (over 300mb/sec, but I forgot the exact numbers). You said something like "should I get a new drive from Apple" - I don't know what you are refering to, but ONE DRIVE will not resolve anything for you. You have a RAID issue that MUST BE RESOLVED before you proceed. NEVER EVER speak to the Apple support person you mentioned earlier. He is an idiot, and has no idea of what he is talking about if he said your RAID was performing properly.

This thread is proof that a professional must configure a system. These things just dont' turn on and start working. This ain't an iMac.

Bob Zelin



Re: Well its still happening....
by Nick Balogh on Jan 8, 2006 at 10:24:01 pm

I got Journaling turned off through the Terminal. When I check it now using the Disk Utility it says its off and that its Format as Mas OS Extended. But your saying not to trust that and I have to re format the xServeRAID?


Re: Well its still happening....
by olivier jean on Jan 9, 2006 at 11:33:33 am

Hi Nick,

Have you check this update out for the Xserve raid and video editing?

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/xserveraiddriver10.html


that might do the trick, i would check the cables too, have you got access to new ones and a new card?.
Have you stripped the 2 LUNs of the Xserve as a raid 50?
Is this a new Xerve or an old one?

Regards
Olivier Jean
Video Sales Consultant
Apple Certified Trainer Final Cut Pro 5
Powermedia Systems
Sydney Australia


Re: Well its still happening....
by olivier jean on Jan 9, 2006 at 11:35:26 am

Have you got the latest firmware??



Regards
Olivier Jean
Video Sales Consultant
Apple Certified Trainer Final Cut Pro 5
Powermedia Systems
Sydney Australia


Re: Well its still happening....
by gary adcock on Jan 8, 2006 at 10:30:26 pm

[Nick Balogh] "I got journaling turned off. I tried the Kona transfer test again and its still getting around 80mbs write and 130mbs read. This is with my warning light still on telling me one of my drives is about to fail. Do you think the breakdown of one of my modules would cause this"


glad you found journalling to turn it off.
yes a failed drive will decrease the raids ability to handle data.
and it will take a while to rebuild the raid after you put the new drive in - at least 12hrs.



Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA



Re: Well its still happening....
by Nick Balogh on Jan 9, 2006 at 4:51:05 pm

Ya..that was one of the first things I checked. I loaded that driver and checked the firmware. Its all up to date. Im looking into getting some new cables and I have already switched out the Fibre channel card. The xServe is about a year and half old. When I look in the RAID admin both sides come up Raid 5.


Re: Well its still happening....
by Bob Zelin on Jan 10, 2006 at 4:30:32 am

Nick -
how long do you want to keep this thread going ? There is something VERY WRONG with your drive array. You are not going to get any miracle answers on this forum that will make it start working. Replace your bad drive, and once it rebuilds, if you don't get dramatically better performance from AJA Kona System Test, start from scratch - use RAID ADMIN to delete the RAID, and let it rebuild from scratch, and then TEST IT AGAIN. If you ignore this warning, and just keep going at 80mb/sec performance with a loaded XServe RAID, you are doomed for near future failure.

What more can I say.

Bob Zelin



Re: Well its still happening....
by David Berez on Jan 10, 2006 at 4:30:21 pm

Nick,

I know I mentioned this before BUT, would you please confirm that "allow host caching" is turned off (unclicked) in the performance tab in XRAID Admin/Settings. The problem you describe is exactly what happens to me when I load with "allow host caching" on. Remember, (for me at least) I HAVE to reset this EVERY time I go to load. (If anybody knows how to fix this let me know) Even with a bad drive, you STILL shouldn't have the freezes you describe.

Please let me know.

David


Re: Well its still happening....
by Nick Balogh on Jan 10, 2006 at 7:27:30 pm

[Bob Zelin] "How long do you want to keep this thread going ?"

To answer Bob





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