Creative Community Conversations (was FCPX Debates) Forum
Resolve beefs up audio - where's FCPX?
Resolve beefs up audio - where's FCPX?
by Oliver Peters on Mar 9, 2020 at 2:55:16 pm

Too bad you can't deal with audio in FCPX like this:

https://postperspective.com/blackmagic-releases-resolve-16-2-beefs-up-audio-post-tools/

It would be nice to have a mixer panel based on roles - without the need to compound.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Re: Resolve beefs up audio - where's FCPX?
by Jim Curtis on Mar 9, 2020 at 9:59:50 pm

I'm not crazy about the FCPX approach to audio. I'm used to track based effects, and it makes sense. I'm hoping Adobe will roll Audition into Premiere at some point, like this, and avoid round-tripping, and re-writing / export / import of audio. Also, beef up the busing, incorporate side-chaining, and make more flexible dragging and dropping of effects in the sends, saving presets, etc. BMD is taking an approach I admire. Fairlight was already well regarded in the audio world.

Jim Curtis
jamesphilipcurtis.com

MacPro7,1 24-core - 256 GB RAM - AMD Radeon Pro Vega II 32 GB - 10.15.3


Re: Resolve beefs up audio - where's FCPX?
by Oliver Peters on Mar 9, 2020 at 10:13:00 pm

[Jim Curtis] "I'm hoping Adobe will roll Audition into Premiere at some point, like this, and avoid round-tripping, and re-writing / export / import of audio."

I wouldn't hold my breath. Different development teams and a lot of additional audio-centric functions in Audition that aren't in Premiere. Plus Audition does have its own user base (small, maybe?) among audio producers, radio producers, and podcasters. Plus, you might not like the result if they do that. When Adobe EOL'ed SpeedGrade in order to focus on Lumetri color in Premiere, a lot of grading functionality was lost.

But more to the point for FCPX, you can do a lot with the current audio tools, but right now it requires compounding your sequence. Often multiple times. Apple could easily stick with the Roles concept and still have a very functional audio mixer pane, with the possibility of submaster and master "tracks."

[Jim Curtis] "Fairlight was already well regarded in the audio world."

I wonder in reality what the user base has been for Fairlight, compared with Pro Tools or Logic? Or even other tools, like Nuendo or Reaper?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Re: Resolve beefs up audio - where's FCPX?
by Jim Curtis on Mar 9, 2020 at 10:20:15 pm

IINM, Fairlight is an Australian company, as is BMD. I don't know anybody who had a CMI, their first product that was like the similar Synclavier. I knew several people who had those. And there was another product that Peter Gabriel promoted at the time, that I recall was called an AMS, or some similar three character acronym. Several started out as samplers with a built in DAW. I recall that ProTools started as a pretty simple digital audio recorder.

Jim Curtis
jamesphilipcurtis.com

MacPro7,1 24-core - 256 GB RAM - AMD Radeon Pro Vega II 32 GB - 10.15.3


Re: Resolve beefs up audio - where's FCPX?
by Oliver Peters on Mar 9, 2020 at 11:05:10 pm

Right. I worked at a facility that had several of those - NED Synclavier and NED Post Pro and AMS/Neve Audiofile. These were the go-to audio post/editing and production tools before software DAWs, like ProTools. Quantel also had one called Screensound (or something like that). And Avid had AudioVision. But Pro Tools eventually became the dominant DAW in the TV/Film/recording industry business. When Avid bought them, AudioVision was EOL'ed.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Re: Resolve beefs up audio - where's FCPX?
by Jim Curtis on Mar 9, 2020 at 11:18:34 pm

I'd forgotten about Audiovision. I had a client with one, who asked me (a freelance editor) to learn it after his audio guy moved. I browsed the manual, and said, "No thanks."

I was just thinking yesterday about Avid's first rack mounted RAID, and how loud it was. No way you could have one in the working room.

Jim Curtis
jamesphilipcurtis.com

MacPro7,1 24-core - 256 GB RAM - AMD Radeon Pro Vega II 32 GB - 10.15.3


Re: Resolve beefs up audio - where's FCPX?
by Michael Gissing on Mar 10, 2020 at 1:35:47 am

Firstly Fairlight invented digital sampling. The CMI was the worlds first sampler with a sequencer. Synclavier came later and basically copied the Fairlight approach. One of the first customers for the Fairlight CMI was Stevie Wonder. Yes Australian. Two men Kim Ryrie & Peter Vogel developed the first sampler/ sequencer in the harbor side Sydney suburb of Fairlight.

As a long term user of dSP (a Fairlight offshoot) and then Fairlight Xynergi (developed when Fairlight bought the dSP IP and software dev team), I have been intimately involved with the development of this product. Since Blackmagic bought the Fairlight IP, they also employ the software team that go back to the dSP developments of the 1990's. Fairlight could never compete with the ProTools marketing muscle or the clout of Apple with Logic. However the use of Fairlight tended to be with big Japanese & European broadcasters. It was and still is the most intuitive and powerful of DAWs. Using a single FPGA card, I have had the capacity to mix 1000 tracks, with full EQ, dynamics and automation for 15 years into surround formats. Six years ago I upgraded the FPGA card to allow for multichannel outputs like Dolby Atmos, NHKs 22.2 surround and many others. Although Fairlight standalone has been EOL for over three years, its still leading edge.

I have been dismayed at the progress of integration of Fairlight into Resolve which is my software of choice for grade & finishing. This latest update is getting closer and I am looking at the feasibility of moving over to just using the Resolve Fairlight to do what I now do with the old standalone. For that I will definitely want the edit control panel and a single mixer panel. Doing audio with a mouse and virtual faders is awful.


Re: Resolve beefs up audio - where's FCPX?
by Oliver Peters on Mar 10, 2020 at 12:47:42 pm

[Michael Gissing] "I have been dismayed at the progress of integration of Fairlight into Resolve which is my software of choice for grade & finishing. This latest update is getting closer and I am looking at the feasibility of moving over to just using the Resolve Fairlight to do what I now do with the old standalone. "

I think that's ultimately the question with Resolve. Is the intent to make each page world-class in its own right or is it to make a great all-in-one tool, primarily focused on colorists/finishing editors? That pertains to Fusion as much as Fairlight.

Other than servicing existing Fairlight customers, are these updates attracting new customers for just the DAW and by extension, the hardware control surfaces for mixing?

It seems to me that BMD is trying to create a better Avid|DS or Flame, rather than a full-fledged combination of Resolve (color) + Media Composer + Nuke + Pro Tools.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Re: Resolve beefs up audio - where's FCPX?
by Michael Gissing on Mar 11, 2020 at 12:05:39 am

[Oliver Peters] "Other than servicing existing Fairlight customers, are these updates attracting new customers for just the DAW and by extension, the hardware control surfaces for mixing?"

I am not involved with the software team anymore since they went to BM. Also BM controls that sort of info more closely than Fairlight did. I've stepped back from the bleeding edge. My hunch is that the ex Fairlight guys will want to get at least the same level of functionality as the old standalone. The biggest stumbling block for me is being able to reliably open old projects from Xynergi in Resolve. I'm sure they will go to Resolve to keep going and buy controllers and faders rather than go to ProTools.

Long game I reckon we might start to see more difference between the free version and the paid and some of that might be extended features in Fairlight and Fusion, much like the extended features on the Color page - NR and OFX. Maybe the detection of the optional CC-2 card (the FPGA) might unlock extra features for the audio pro.

There is no doubt the Resolve version of Fairlight has brought new customers from the audio world. I know lots of sound post people who now have Resolve, as well as Reaper, ProTools and Logic. They are adding Resolve in a way they didn't do with the standalone. More importantly as production workflows favour more the lone wolf, having top quality finishing tools for both picture and sound integrated into such and affordable product will attract customers, mostly from Adobe I suspect.


Re: Resolve beefs up audio - where's FCPX?
by Brad Hurley on Mar 11, 2020 at 1:18:06 pm

"More importantly as production workflows favour more the lone wolf, having top quality finishing tools for both picture and sound integrated into such and affordable product will attract customers, mostly from Adobe I suspect."

Agreed, although since Resolve facilitates collaboration it's also possible to have Hollywood-style production workflows from department to department in Resolve. There was a post earlier this year on the Blackmagic Design forum from some guy at NBC Studios who convinced his team (editors, audio, etc.) to go 100% Resolve, although he didn't do his research before they bought into the system and was experiencing lots of problems (mainly related to Windows and GPU issues).

As for Final Cut, there's been a long silence from Apple on both the Final Cut and Logic Pro X fronts, which suggests they're working on major updates. Who knows, the next release might be version 11 for both FCPX and Logic, but in any case it'll be interesting to see if Apple tries to integrate Logic with FCPX in some way. There's already superficial integration in the sense that Logic plugins are available to FCPX and Apple has tried to make it easier to work with FCPX exports in Logic, but the lack of a mixer in FCPX (and the lack of a simple solution for loudness metering that you could place on the master bus) could be addressed by integrating Logic (or elements of Logic) into FCPX.

I've seen some speculation that the new versions of FCPX and Logic could be released this month, but as the saying goes, "those who know don't tell, and those who tell don't know."


Re: Resolve beefs up audio - where's FCPX?
by Francois Jean on Mar 10, 2020 at 12:17:00 am

Charlie Austin had a great implementation suggestion for audio in FCPX...

https://twitter.com/fcpxpert1/status/1232415174138556416

I think this would be a very good first step and we would not need the compound for this function .

FRANCOIS





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