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hmc 150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
hmc 150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by Michael Fountain on Nov 29, 2008 at 9:46:39 pm

Hello All,

I have been reading posts and found the helpful, thanks. My new HMC 150 just arrived and I have installed FCE 4 on a 2.8GHz (intel duo core) iMac. I haven't shot any footage yet but I'm wondering if i will run into any issues with the above mentioned set up.

I am hoping that it should all "jive" but some posts regarding "editing issues on FCE and iMac" are alarming. Should I be concerned?

Also, does anyone know if there is a way to utilize the footage from the hmc150 in iMovie HD(06') ?

I am very much a newbie and would appreciate all tips or advice...thanks a lot!







Re: hmc 150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by Noah Kadner on Dec 1, 2008 at 12:32:56 am

Does FCE even support the HMC150- I was under the impression it was only fully supported in FCP.

Noah

Check out My FCP Blog and my new RED Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, DVD Studio Pro and Sound for Film and TV.
http://www.callboxlive.com


Re: hmc 150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by Michael Fountain on Dec 1, 2008 at 1:32:20 am

I hope so...FCE 4 says that it can work with AVCHD?

"Final Cut Express 4 lets you edit footage captured in the most popular formats — including AVCHD.* Simply connect your camcorder to your Mac, preview and select the AVCHD clips you’d like to import, and start editing your video..."

All info that I have been able to find suggests it converts the AVCHD into AIC and then you can move through as per usual...

Do you think I'm OK with the 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac and 4Gb of ram? Thanks, your posts are very helpful.






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Re: hmc 150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by Noah Kadner on Dec 1, 2008 at 5:59:05 pm

Hardware wise it should be fine but I'm still not convinced the HMC150 is supported in Final Cut Express. It does shoot the prosumer versions of AVCHD that FCE supports, but it also shoots a special PH mode that is much higher quality and bitrate specific for the camera. That's the mode you want to use as it looks great but I'm thinking it's not in FCE. Worth a shot though- let us know if it does indeed work.

Noah

Check out My FCP Blog and my new RED Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, DVD Studio Pro and Sound for Film and TV.
http://www.callboxlive.com


Re: hmc 150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by michael fountain on Dec 1, 2008 at 7:23:17 pm

Thanks so much for the response...I'll keep you posted. Great resource, thanks!




Re: hmc 150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by Michael Fountain on Dec 9, 2008 at 9:39:19 pm

Yes, you were correct Noah...It appears that Most AVCHD files need to be converted to work in FCE 4..RATS! thanks




Re: hmc 150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by Masud Haq on Dec 10, 2008 at 4:51:30 am

Michael,
When you say it needs to be converted, are you referring to the conversion to AIC during ingest? And once it converts to AIC, does it work in FCE 4?

I am expecting that 1080/30p and 1080/60i in PH mode will work with FCE 4, but the 720/60p and 720/30p will have issues. Also I am expecting that 1080/24p and 720/24p will work but will have motion artifacts.

If the 1080 modes work then I will probably order the camera. Your input is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.




Re: hmc 150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by Noah Kadner on Dec 12, 2008 at 2:17:08 am

I'd doubt the PH mode works directly in any way with FCE> seriously if you want to use the HMC150 you need FCP.

Noah

Check out My My FCP Blog and my new RED Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook,
DVD Studio Pro and How to Light Interviews.
http://www.callboxlive.com


Re: hmc 150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by Michael Fountain on Dec 12, 2008 at 5:06:04 am

Yes, it seems as though one needs to convert the .mts files in a program like toast 9 prior to using them in FCE...




Re: hmc 150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by Masud Haq on Dec 12, 2008 at 11:37:21 am

I will upgrade to FCP soon but first I will need to upgrade the hardware. In the mean time, my hcp150 arrived and I was testing it with FCE 4.01. I used FCE's log and transfer window to ingest the video clips which converts it into Apple intermediate codec (AIC). In PH mode 1080/60i works without any issues at all. PH1080/30p works but the first three and half seconds of the ingested AIC converted video is jerky, but the rest of the AIC converted clip is very good without any issues and is usable. In both cases the sound is synchronized quite well. The ingest process with 2.4GHz Intel Macbook Pro w/ 4GB RAM was reasonably quick - it took about the same time as the duration of the clip which is kinda like ingesting from a miniDV tape.

I have not yet tested the 720 modes, but given the other reviews and blog posts I have read, I suspect there will be issues. I will post here if I have any interesting findings in the 720 modes.




Re: hmc 150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by Masud Haq on Dec 12, 2008 at 11:39:37 am

I mean my hmc150 arrived.




Re: hmc150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by Masud Haq on Dec 19, 2008 at 4:43:53 am

I tried the 720 modes on the AG-HMC150. Here are the results. In FCE 4.01 I have set Easy Setup to be AIC 720p30 for of the following.

With PH 720/60p record mode on the camera, FCE imports the clips and the sound perfectly and in sync. There is none of the jerky-ness in the first few seconds (or anywhere in the clip) that I saw in the 1080/30p record mode. No green frames either that I saw in the first few seconds of 1080/30p clips.

With PH 720/30p record mode on the camera, FCE will play the clip in the log and transfer window fine, but when ingested and transcoded into AIC the video plays twice as fast and the duration of the clip is half as long. The sound, however, plays at normal speed so the AIC clip has only the first half of the original sound track. Naturally video and sound are out of sync. This issue has already been reported in other posts and in other forums. In this mode there is no jerky-ness or green frames.

Here is some additional information. When the PH1080/30p recorded clips are transcoded to AIC, the data rate ranged from 12.5 to 15 Mbps. With the PH720/60p clips I am getting between 9 and 10 Mbps on the transcoded AIC. So per pixel I am getting about 50% better data rate on 720 than 1080. The unfortunate thing is that the recorded data rate in both averages about 21Mbps, so a lot is lost when transcoding to AIC.

Stepping up to FCP with ProRes 422 or ProRes 422 (HQ) instead of AIC should let us take advantage of the additional recorded data rate. Additionally FCP should also handle the 24p modes (PH1080/24p and PH720/24p) natively - I did not even bother testing these on FCE. From what I have seen in other forum posts, the speed issue with 720/30p is still there in FCP - until a future fix/update by apple.




Re: hmc150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by Michael Fountain on Dec 19, 2008 at 5:14:35 am

Masud,

Thanks for posting...Great info for us FCE users!




Re: hmc150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by Masud Haq on Dec 19, 2008 at 7:37:16 pm

Quick update on recording a 720/60p in the camera and ingesting into FCE:

For some clips, especially in bright light with a lot of detail in the scene, I am seeing some gray or colored bands appear in the video. in a 98 second long clip I saw two occasions of this banding each less than 2 seconds in duration.

When I play the same clip directly from the camera on an hdtv using the HDMI cable, the banding is not there. However the banding is there in the preview in the log and transfer window, and the identical banding is there in the AIC that is generated in the transcoding.

This makes me think that this could be a bug in the log and transfer window reading the video, and not just an issue with AIC. Does anybody see this issue in FCP 6 log and transfer?




Re: hmc150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by Masud Haq on Dec 20, 2008 at 8:45:42 pm

I have upgraded to Final Cut Studio 2 and upgraded to the latest versions online (FCP 6.0.5, etc.). I tested all the PH modes (except 1080i60). They all work quite well including the 24p modes.

I am transcoding to Apple ProRes 422. I don't see any option to transcode to ProRes HQ - can others validate this?

When the clips are transcoded to ProRes 422 through the Log & Transfer window of FCP, my data rate is still not great:
- For 720p60 and 1080p30 I get 17 MB/sec
- For 1080p24 I get about 14MB/sec
- For 720p30 I get about 9MB/sec
- For 720p24 I get about 7MB/sec

These clips were all recorded in PH mode so the original data rate for all of the above clips are around 21MB/sec. I am not getting the advantage of these high data rates when transcoded to ProRes. The original AVCHD looks really good when I plug the camera to an HDTV with an HDMI cable, but looking at the transcoded clip on QuickTime, I can see the difference in quality. Particularly disappointing are the data rates for the 24p modes.

Any ideas anyone? Am I not setting something correctly?





Re: hmc 150, final cut express 4 and 2.8GHz (intel duo core)iMac
by Tim Dumont on Dec 29, 2008 at 2:21:31 pm

Masud,

Hey, I was hoping you might be able to give me some insight as I am about ready to pull all my hair out.. :)

I have a MacPro duo 2.66 mhz. I have an internal Seagate 750 GB scratch drive, of which about 350gb is taken already. I also have an external that is not really being used. Regardless, I have had no luck ingesting anything successfully. Can you let me know exactly what your settings were when you ingested your footage? When I try any 1080, even in the lower quality modes FCP crashes. I have tried it off the camera directly and off my hard drive after copying it off the card with the same results. I can see it in the log and transfer window fine and it plays fine there. When I capture it though it plays twice the speed as you reported before.

I am thinking of backing what stuff I need to save and restoring my machine to it's out of the box state? Any help would be much appreciated.



Tim Dumont





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