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Combining sequences at 25 fps with 29.97 fps? ATTN: Shane Ross?

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James Ault
Combining sequences at 25 fps with 29.97 fps? ATTN: Shane Ross?
on May 20, 2019 at 2:42:01 pm

I built two sequences in FCP7 with similar footage--most in 1920x1080 XDCAM HD422 1080p30 (50mbs) but also a little SD shot with my SONY DVCAM in 4:3 and a little from someone else's DSLR. But I inadvertently built the initial sequence running 52:00 at 29:97 fps and the one to join to it running 35:00 at 25 fps (both sequences are in Apple Prores 422HQ at 1280x720). Now I just want to join them together in the full-length film and that's where the problems are coming from (losing clips, losing synch, etc.)

After reading earlier posts, wondering whether I can convert all or parts of the 35-minute sequence in 25 fps to 29:97 fps with Compressor as Shane Ross recommended for individual clips.

Or, what should I do? I confess I'm a technical klutz!


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Shane Ross
Re: Combining sequences at 25 fps with 29.97 fps? ATTN: Shane Ross?
on May 20, 2019 at 9:07:27 pm

First off, why is everything 720p? Why not 1080? What's the delivery going to be?

Second, yes, what I'd do with the 25fps sequence is convert it to 29.97...the whole thing. Output it, then convert and bring over. But...why is it already 720p, if it's SD? It shouldn't be. FCP 7 doesn't scale well. You should be cutting this in a PAL DV timeline, export to that format, and then convert the frame rate and upscale at the same time.

Not sure Compressor is ideal for this. Compressor does a good job of scaling...and converting 23.98 to 29.97 INTERLACED (by adding pulldown). But this is 25fps...most likely interlaced it being DV...to 29.97 PROGRESSIVE. You have to scale, deinterlace and convert the frame rate all at once. Questions are...what's your budget? How good does this need to look? Because your options are based on how much you can afford, and how good you want it to look. ZERO budget, yup, use compressor. There will be repeat frames, you can't avoid that, when going 25 progressive to 30 progressive. Nothing to hide in the interlacing.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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James Ault
Re: Combining sequences at 25 fps with 29.97 fps? ATTN: Shane Ross?
on May 21, 2019 at 11:46:56 am

Thanks so much for your thoughts and suggestions, Shane. As confessed, I'm a technical klutz, a student of culture and history who got into documentary filmmaking in the cinéma vérité genre by working with some of its pioneers in this country back in the 16mm 1980s. Initially learned to shoot and get good sound myself in the field and only much, much later, to do rough editing in FCP7. I turn to young editors I've worked with for coaching. In this case, I need a lot! And they didn't know how to handle this problem. Often turn to Creative Cow and other online resources to problem-solve.

In response to your comments, I guess I let the sequences reside in 720 because I'm using some old SD footage in 4:3 I shot a while back with my DVCAM camera (didn't know how best to handle it in 1080). But most of the footage has been shot with my SONY PMW 200 in 1920x1080 XDCAM HD422 1080p30 (50mbs). Your response suggests 720 doesn't make sense here. If so, don't know how best to convert the existing two sequences into 1080.)

The film I'm working on is a labor of love done in my semi-retirement years with a tiny budget raised via Kickstarter. It's on the life a great musician in Zimbabwe, Machanic Manyeruke, known as the father of gospel music there. It may get some play on cable television, even public broadcasting, somewhere around the world, because of the profound cross-cultural lessons his life-story holds (including that of his son, now a dance hall star in Zimbabwe) but it will mostly be used, I imagine, by educators around the world, accessed as digital downloads and projected to classes from computers.

I want to combine these two sequences and post the full roughcut online to get feedback from viewers, before making changes and moving forward to do completion work on the film. Extensive subtitling is done but even a rough sound mix remains. In response to your suggestions, I must confess I don't know the in's and out's of interlacing versus progressive video, and don't understand why you suggest cutting it in a Pal DV timeline (all the footage is in NTSC of course). Wondering whether I should convert both sequences to 1280 (or 1920?)x1080 (and how best to do that), and then spend several days just rebuilding the 35-minute sequence, clip by clip, at 29.97 fps? Maybe chatting by phone sometime would help, if you'd be open for that. Would appreciate any further clarifications or suggestions you (or others) would make. (My email: contact@jamesault.com) Sorry for the mess and my ignorance and thanks for your help!


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Shane Ross
Re: Combining sequences at 25 fps with 29.97 fps? ATTN: Shane Ross?
on May 22, 2019 at 5:03:37 pm

[James Ault] "I let the sequences reside in 720 because I'm using some old SD footage in 4:3 I shot a while back with my DVCAM camera (didn't know how best to handle it in 1080). But most of the footage has been shot with my SONY PMW 200 in 1920x1080 XDCAM HD422 1080p30 (50mbs). Your response suggests 720 doesn't make sense here. If so, don't know how best to convert the existing two sequences into 1080.)"

It's always best to work in the sequence with the settings that match the majority of the footage. Also, in a sequence that matches what you want/need to deliver. In this case, most your footage is 1080p, and a good delivery would be 1080p. So now you need to fix your one sequence to be 1080p...and then that other one, will need more work. Fixing this will be a process, and take time and a bit of tech know how. I'll have to see when I have time to dive into all of this.

But to outline...you'll have to make a new sequence with the settings you want, copy and paste the 1080p footage from the 720p sequence, into the new one...and then fix all the sizing issues...the clips will all be scaled down to 720p. You'll have to REMOVE ATTRIBUTES>SCALE. But if you zoomed in on any footage, or have stills in there, that will hit them too, so you might need to to it a few clips at a time.

The SD footage...you'll have to make an SD sequence that matches the settings, then copy and paste into that sequence, and then fix the scaling issues there. Then, we will need to output this sequence, upscale it and change the frame rate...that might require hardware conversion...or something like After Effects.

BUT...if you just want to get this out to show people and show investors...you don't NEED to do this yet. because getting this right will take quite a bit of skill and time, and I would suggest you hire someone to do it. Even a skilled online editor will have to throw tricks at this to get it right. Not really something that can be explained thoroughly in a post. BUT...for screening...keep things 720p, just output them separately to make two separate files, and then import them again, put them in one sequence, output again as a master. Yeah, the 25p will stutter a bit. Only way to fix that is with a hardware converter, or After Effects.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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James Ault
Re: Combining sequences at 25 fps with 29.97 fps? ATTN: Shane Ross?
on May 24, 2019 at 2:35:41 am

Thanks so much, Shane. On a shoot right now and will respond more fully later.


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James Ault
Re: Combining sequences at 25 fps with 29.97 fps? ATTN: Shane Ross?
on May 26, 2019 at 1:03:38 pm

Sorry not to respond sooner, Shane. Was on a shoot in Philadelphia. Thanks so, so much for your help comprehending all this. I will certainly need to hire an skilled editor to handle this, and will be sharing your posts with him/her. Meanwhile, I will share your good counsel with them, and, meanwhile, will create a unified roughcut to view as you suggest. Hope the 25fps won't stutter too much. Finally, one of my weaknesses is not knowing how to fix size or scaling issues. Need to know how best to do that. Thanks again!


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