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1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422

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raju bhai
1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Jan 29, 2019 at 5:00:27 am

Hi,
I have footage shot on a Canon HV-30. It is HDV 1080i60 with frame size 1440x1080 (current size 1888x1062(actual)) and fps 29.96
To edit on FCP7, do i still need to convert this to Prores422?
And if the answer to that is yes, then should i use the original parameters for the footage i mentioned above when i convert?
thanks


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Warren Eig
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Jan 29, 2019 at 5:42:51 pm

Can you use the the canon plugin and long and transfer?

Warren Eig
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Shane Ross
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Jan 29, 2019 at 7:40:50 pm

[Warren Eig] " Can you use the the canon plugin and long and transfer?"

No, it's tape...not a digital file, so you have to Log and Capture. BUT...there is a way to capture HDV as ProRes. Only, it'll still be 1440x1080, with anamorphic flags to stretch it out to 1920.

There's a tutorial on that here at the Cow:

https://library.creativecow.net/articles/poisson_chris/hdv-prores.php

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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raju bhai
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Jan 30, 2019 at 12:18:19 am

Thanks for link.
But I by no means want to recapture the footage.
My question is this: Given the HDV parameters of the footage i stated above, do i still need to convert to Prores to edit in FCP7? And if so, should i keep all the original parameters of my source footage or should I change the frame size, etc?
My project is going to have footage not only from the canon HV-30, but also HD footage shot on a Samsung s9+ phone. So i would need to settle on a sequence setting of the best frame rate, frame size, etc to accommodate these different source materials. I'm only just beginning the editing phase now, so i figure i better make this decision of optimal sequence settings now.
Then I can take my different source materials and transcode them to Prores with a common setting.
Any input on that would be greatly appreciated, thanks!


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Shane Ross
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Jan 31, 2019 at 12:05:58 am

[raju bhai] "Given the HDV parameters of the footage i stated above, do i still need to convert to Prores to edit in FCP7?"

No. FCP 7 will edit HDV just fine, and you can export a ProRes full scale QT in the end.

[raju bhai] "And if so, should i keep all the original parameters of my source footage or should I change the frame size, etc?"

Keep the original everything. Drop a clip into a new sequence and let FCP make that sequence match the clip settings and use that. Then export ProRes in the end

[raju bhai] "My project is going to have footage not only from the canon HV-30, but also HD footage shot on a Samsung s9+ phone. So i would need to settle on a sequence setting of the best frame rate, frame size, etc to accommodate these different source materials."

OOOOOOOHhhhh.... IN that case...Edit on a ProRes 422 1920x1080 sequence. Frame rate to match the majority of the footage.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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raju bhai
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Feb 2, 2019 at 4:55:39 pm

thank you! btw, do u know the differnce between the stated frame size and the "current" "actual" framse size? it says frame size is 1920 by 1080, but then says actual is 1440 by 1080. Not sure which one i should use, i imagine the actual size


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raju bhai
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Feb 2, 2019 at 5:20:36 pm

OK, sorry, now i know this is what I have:
-canon HV-30 footage that is 1440 x 1080, 29.97fps
-flipcam footage that is 1280 x 720, 50fps

I may not use the samsung s9+ footage after all, just the above 2.

So i imagine i should convert both to Prores 422. Just wondering which frame size and frame rate is optimal to accommodate both. I'm not worried about the sync issue as long as the video portion is intact. This is a music video and i don't need the performance to sync up with the visuals so accurately (i can always nudge clips around).

Also, is it ok if i keep the audio at 44.1 khz, or does it have to be converted to 48khz to work well in FCP7?

ok, please lemme know, thank you


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Feb 2, 2019 at 6:05:56 pm

[raju bhai] "-canon HV-30 footage that is 1440 x 1080, 29.97fps
-flipcam footage that is 1280 x 720, 50fps"


Then you already have problems. The frame rates do not match, and FCP can not work well with mixed frame rate footage..
What kind of file do you have to deliver when you are finished?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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raju bhai
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Feb 2, 2019 at 6:59:17 pm

What kind of file do you have to deliver when you are finished?

i don't have any requirements as per type of file, finished product is for going up on youtube.


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raju bhai
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Feb 12, 2019 at 2:34:38 am

Hi Dave,

The finished product is for uploading to Youtube.

These are the parameters of the footage I'll be using in this project:
-canon HV-30 footage that is 1440 x 1080, 29.97fps
-flipcam footage that is 1280 x 720, 50fps

Should I still transpose to 1920x1080? Neither of the footage is that frames size. Also, mixing 29.97 fps with 50fps. Which frame rate should I choose for best result? (I know it's a tall order mixing such diverse frames rates but I'm not worried about the sync so much since I can nudge clips to fit)

Thanks


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Feb 12, 2019 at 4:23:37 am
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Feb 12, 2019 at 5:53:10 pm

There's nothing wrong with 1280x720. But I guarantee that you'll have frame rate problems!
FCP may be able to ACCOMMODATE footage in mixed frame rates, but that doesn't mean it will look good.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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raju bhai
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Feb 12, 2019 at 7:01:02 pm

Hi Dave,

I figure since i have both 1480x1080 and 1280x720 footage, then i should probably go with 1480x1080 since that will accommodate both types of footage. Or are u saying 1280x720 would be the better option?
Also, since i have two different frame rates, i understand it could be a problem, but what do you think would be the best frame rate to use in my project to accommodate both? With both 29.97fps and 50fps, should i settle on the project being 30fps? or 50fps? or?


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Feb 13, 2019 at 3:22:52 am

Um, how much video editing have you done?

I'll give you this -- at least you're asking about the pitfalls before you open this can of worms. That's good.

But you probably won't like future advice.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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raju bhai
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Feb 13, 2019 at 6:20:01 am

I haven't started the editing yet. I want to make sure I choose the proper parameters first. I'd be grateful for any guidance on that. I can't change the fact that i have wonderful footage from 2 very different sources.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Feb 14, 2019 at 12:24:36 am

It sounds like working in a 1920x1080 ProRes 422, 29.97 Progressive project is the way to go.

1440x1090 is HDV video. It cheats on the pixel widths, and it's meant to work in 1920x1080.

The phone video won't be a lot of fun. You'll want to do a frame rate CONVERSION to 29.97 fps using something like Twixtor for the conversion. It costs about $500. There's no way around that in FCP -- you will eventually note strange things happening to the motion, and you don't want to get nto the edit before you think to yourself, "I should have converted the frame rate."

While you're at it, you should also scale up the phone video to 1920x1080. I will look fine.

Then, when everything is at 1920x1080 29.97 you'll be ready to edit.

Oh, one more thing: DO NOT USE MP3 AUDIO! Convert it in Soundtrack to aiff files. There are few NLE's that really like MP3's, and you don't want to cut in the ones that do. The normal sample rate and bit depth for FCP apply.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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raju bhai
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Feb 14, 2019 at 2:40:37 am

Thanks Dave,

All sounds good. Only thing I'm reconsidering, however, is to settle on 50 fps for the frame rate of the project rather than 29.97. Reason being that I don't want to delete frames when down converting the 50fps footage to 29.97. So the problem with this path I chose means I would convert the canon footage from 29.97 up to 50 fps. It will end up repeating frames and messing the sync up. But I like the detail in the visuals. Do u think that's ok, to use 50fps for the project? Basically I'm afraid I'll lose something by down converting the flip cam footage from 50 to 29.97fps (btw, it's not a phone camera, it's a mini flip camera)


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Feb 14, 2019 at 3:57:33 am

You misunderstand -- you have no choice but to use frame rate conversion software. This means using Twixtor. It literally creates new intermediate frames based on the frames available to it. It's better to have more frames per second than needed to make the creation easier. The result would be 29.97 video made out of 50 video.

If you fail to do it you will have problems with image motion no matter which frame rate you choose.

Why do you think I keep telling you the non-matching frame rates will be your biggest problem?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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raju bhai
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Feb 18, 2019 at 6:25:29 am

If converting from 50 fps down to 29.97, won't it end up deleting some frames? ie, less motion detail


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Feb 20, 2019 at 12:29:05 am

You have to pick SOMETHING.
Pick which type of footage gets its frame rate converted -- the 29.97 or the 50. You'll have to live with it either way, and there are no best practices for this.....

....other than to shoot all your footage at the same frame rate, that is. Which was not done. So you have to deal with it.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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raju bhai
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Feb 8, 2019 at 2:57:17 am

Thanks Shane,

Actually. These are the parameters of the footage I'll be using in this project:
-canon HV-30 footage that is 1440 x 1080, 29.97fps
-flipcam footage that is 1280 x 720, 50fps

Should I still transpose to 1920x1080? Neither of the footage is that frames size. Also, mixing 29.97 fps with 50fps. Which frame rate should I choose for best result? (I know it's a tall order mixing such diverse frames rates but I'm not worried about the sync so much since I can nudge clips to fit)

Thanks


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 1080i60, 1440x1080 to prores422
on Jan 31, 2019 at 4:18:07 am

...and good luck with that phone footage. Unless you have an app that forces the phone to shoot in a standard, fixed frame rate you'll have sync problems with the footage.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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