FORUMS: list search recent posts

Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro Legacy

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Marc Israel
Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 17, 2018 at 9:19:58 am

Hi. I'm suddenly having a lot of problems with a documentary film project I’m working on in FCP 7, and quite likely all the issues are related. First, I am getting the much feared and dreaded “out of memory” message when in the middle of rendering certain files. Second, i’m getting the annoying "dropped frames" dialog box when playing back sequences. And thirdly, am plagued with things suddenly so sluggish that even when I hit play (space bar) to view a sequence, the command won’t always register, or there’ll be a brief spinning rainbow ball before it even starts playing. I’ve done some googling and read some solutions, but nothing takes so far. For instance the issue is not high resolution photos. Also, I trashed all render and cache files. People talk about sequence settings sometimes being the culprit. I’m using a 1440x1080 frame size, 23.98 Vid Rate, HDV 1080p24 compression, audio 48KHZ with 32 bit “floating point”. Is any of that the system settings? Also, using a 2013 Macbook Pro w/ 16GB RAM. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!


Return to posts index

Mark Suszko
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 17, 2018 at 3:32:18 pm

Where are the project files located, and what's the status of the hard disk space?


Return to posts index

Marc Israel
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 17, 2018 at 6:49:06 pm

Thank you both for your assistance. Mark, the original files are located on a Lacie Rugged RAID 4TB external drive. Lots of unused hard drive space still on it. I had them all on a WD drive, and just bought this Lacie recently for backup but now it's instead my mainstay. David, original camera material is all over the shop, as this is a feature-length project shot over years wth different cameras. That said, I've divided the film into different "projects", as each is between 10 and 30 minutes each with plenty of files, sub-sequences, folders to sort through and so it's easier/cleaner/more organized to work on it this way and will fuse them into One later. At least half of the film uses 1440 × 1080 MPEG-2 Video, Linear PCM, Timecode files gotten from a little Canon HV30. THAT said, current "project" is however using 50% footage shot on a different Canon Vixia camera ( (I think, but forgot model #), was converted from MTS files to mov files and then again to Apple ProRes422 using Compression. There's then a mix of various photos from myriad sources, along with a decent portion of footage shot on an Olympus OM-D E-M5 DSLR and again converted to Apple ProRes422.


Return to posts index


Mark Suszko
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 17, 2018 at 7:23:22 pm

I was wondering about how much drive space is left on the internal drive, where I'm guessing your project files are. Especially in cases where the machine needs to render non-ProRes files, it needs enough free space in our "c" drive to swap files in and out. My first guess is, that's where the "clog" is.... what size is the main hard drive and how much space is left?


Return to posts index

Marc Israel
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 17, 2018 at 7:30:13 pm

The internal drive is a 500 GB and there's 136 GB of free space. But no, my project files are all on the external Lacie drive.


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 17, 2018 at 9:48:11 pm

Marc,

Your sequence settings, ie. set HDV is a HUGE problem for you - HDV has long been discontinued, because it’s a horribly “lossy” codec that was in use for a very brief time, before the mire modern compressed codecs like Pro Res 442 were developed, and it get zero performance increase from GPU processing, because that hadn’t been invented yet.

You should open a new sequence, set the seq settings to Pro Res 422, square pixels, and copy and paste everything from your current timeline. You might have to resize some of all over the place material, but you will ultimately have real-time performance and much faster renders.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


Return to posts index


Marc Israel
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 18, 2018 at 12:38:06 am

Please bare with me, as I’m not super savvy on these particular tech matters. Also this is a sprawling and complicated film project…

Half of the film, which involves hundreds and hundreds of clips and several dozen heavily edited sequences, was filmed solely with a Canon HV30 mini-dv camera using 24p mode. I remember that, in order to get the video files working properly, I had to perform a pulldown removal procedure. These QuickTime Movies files all have are 1440x1080MPEG-2 Video, Linear PCM, Timecode. I worked on these sequences for two whole years, editing the hell out of them, and never had any issues using FCP 7. All these sequences are 1440x1080, 23.98 fps, HD1080p24, 48 KHz, 32 bit Floating Point. We’ll call this project “Road”.

The Road sequences and “project” file is NOT the project I’m having issues with now, but the above info might be significant because…with this newer “project” (smaller film within a larger film) I'm presently editing and experiencing trouble with (let’s call it “Peru”), every time I first created/opened a new sequence in the project, in order to have the sequence settings be the same as the larger Road project (because they’ll eventually merge), I would drag any one of the Road HV30 clips onto it, whereby FCP would ask me if I wanna adjust the sequence to fit the files, and I’d click Yes. Thus, both projects have the same sequence settings, which you, David, are telling me could be the culprit and a HUGE problem. “Peru” is the project using 50% footage shot on a different Canon camera (or maybe it was Panasonic? I forget). It created MTS files on an SD card which I then converted to mov files and then again to Apple ProRes422 using Compression. There's also various photos from myriad sources, along with a decent portion of footage shot on an Olympus E-M5 DSLR and again converted to Apple ProRes422, and a ragtag assembly of clips siphoned from the web and turned into ProRes422 with compression. I wasn’t having any issue with this project at all until a couple days ago, when trying to render a heavily-special-effected sequence, whereby blotche, digital squares, and all manner of visual disturbances appeared in the final rendered clips, and finally where “out of memory” kept appearing when I even tried to render this sequence. This was followed by "dropped frames" and very sluggish playback no matter what sequence I was working on.

I am made nervous (or more nervous) by hearing that, apparently, this whole huge epic project is using a discontinued, horribly “lossy” codec, because this film has been my “life’s work” for some time. And the prospect of having to spend hours, if not days, to fix it, and going through a huge amount of sequences, readjusting size, etc, and possibly reconnected media issues...oy I'm getting ahead of myself, but anyway of course I need to do whatever will make things right. I just wanna be sure the problem has definitely be properly identified. Does any of the above confirm or put holes in your idea, David? Why was everything working hunky dory until just a few days ago? Thanks a lot for your input.


Return to posts index

Dave LaRonde
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 18, 2018 at 4:15:56 pm

[Marc Israel] "Why was everything working hunky dory until just a few days ago?"

FCP has a 4GB memory limit. You have apparently hit it with the last work you did. And David's right -- a ProRes 422, 1920x1080 timeline is the way to go. You'll have far fewer problems.

It also sounds like you'll have to export portions of your "epic" timelines to make the "mini-epic"... again, in ProRes 422. Make it a project separate from the epic edit you're creating. You may also want to consider breaking up your "epic" project into smaller, separate projects.

I hope all your frame rates match, too. Mixing frame rates in FCP is a visual if not a technical disaster.

Finally, you should also know that FCP is a VERY poor application in which to do effects. You may want to consider using Motion for them, then exporting for insertion into your timeline. You can't tweak them after export, so you are forced to make decisions about the look of the effects, then live with them... or do them over again if you change your mind.

Hey, it's Final Cut Pro version 7. Apple killed it off SEVEN YEARS AGO! You can't expect performance like you get in more modern applications. It just can't do it!

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


Return to posts index

Mark Suszko
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 18, 2018 at 4:57:17 pm

Start-up audio file on my FCP-7 system:







"It's not dead; it just smells funny"


Return to posts index


Marc Israel
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 18, 2018 at 9:20:18 pm

Dave, Thanks for the input. You wrote “FCP has a 4GB memory limit. You have apparently hit it with the last work you did”. As mentioned, I went back to an earlier version of both projects on a different drive, and had the same issues, and indeed the project is broken up into smaller, separate projects, and many different timelines within each project. When I open any of these projects or timelines, the issue persists. Does that not hint to some other problem than reaching the 4 GB limit? Is the 4GB limit in relation to a single project?

I don’t know much about frame rates. How can I find out what the frame rates are, and how change them?

Thanks for the tip on motion. I have never used much special affects in my films, so never even bothered to try Motion. But that’s a grand idea now that I’m needing more visual effects in a coupe vignettes.

Mark, always good to see some Holy Grail, but wasn’t sure how it relates. Also, why are all the posts in this thread out of order?
Thanks guys!


Return to posts index

Mark Suszko
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 18, 2018 at 9:27:26 pm

Probably a dumb question, but, did you run the disk utility on the hard disk and checked for any hardware issues?


Return to posts index

Marc Israel
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 18, 2018 at 10:06:47 pm

Mark, apparently not a dumb question at all. I just ran Disk Utility/First Aid from startup. Went pretty fast, got checkmark of approval, but I think I did notice it was clearly something up? Restarted. Opened up Peru project from last week's drive. No issues with dropped frames! No sluggish playback! Same thing with Road project. This made me happy. Then I plugged in newer drive, opened Peru. No dropped frames or slow playback! Sweet! Then I decided to play that one aforementioned clip laden with visual affects. Like before, it was filled with random blotches and colored blocks. Okay, I thought, this is probably residual from the bad render when...I was having these issues which are now cleared up. So I reconnected the media from that clip, and then re-rendered that clip, and kablamo!, "out of memory". THEN I decided to just play any other sequence and, kablamo, dropped frames again. Back to square one. But with more intel.

To summarize:
Running First Aid seemed to clear something up completely. Trying to render a certain clip filled with effects created the problem (just like it did the first time).
The plot thickens. I/we are hopefully zeroing in on the problem. But I'm at a loss for how to proceed.


Return to posts index


Marc Israel
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 18, 2018 at 8:18:05 am

Here is some additional info that might prove to useful.
First, I opened the “Road” project” tonight, and learned that now it too is having the same problems. Won’t even play a basic timeline without the dropped frames interrupting before long.
So the nI just went plugged in my WD drive that was my mainstay drive until a week ago and opened the last saved project icon on that drive to see if that would have the same problems (using the capture scratch from that same drive). Indeed there were problems right away, on both projects. As said, I’m not too tech savvy, but this would make me think that the problem has to do with something configured/changed on my Macbook Pro itself (rather than a faultiness or corruption in any of the capture scratch, or in the project icon, or the external hard drives’ mechanisms themselves). I would guess, but could be wrong, the issue is not primarily the HDV sequence setting (tho’ I duly take not that it is apparently not the best choice). I am stumped, and my project stalled until I can figure out what’s going wrong. Any thoughts/input/help would be greatly appreciated,


Return to posts index

Mark Suszko
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 18, 2018 at 10:21:16 pm

If it were me, my next step would be to run disk repair again, then immediately lay-off as much of this material to some other storage medium, muy pronto. I can't help but think you have an imminent system drive failure in the offing. Get your most irreplaceable stuff archived off ASAP. Then look for things on the drive that you could trash. Trash those, run disk repair again. I'm thinking you may have bad sectors and not enough room for the swap files.


Return to posts index

Marc Israel
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 18, 2018 at 10:32:54 pm

This is actually a new-to-me used Macbook Pro bought two months ago and Time-Machined to being back what was on my older MBP. So that, along with the fact that the whole film is essentially backed up on 2 different extrenal drives. means there's not much to backup. But as for throwing stuff overboard to maybe save this sinking ship, what shall I throw away? I just ran DU again like you said. I don't know what "bad sectors and not enough room for the swap files" means, but am all ears


Return to posts index


Mark Suszko
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 18, 2018 at 10:36:48 pm

When you click "get info" on the main hard drive, the system drive, what's the ratio of total drive space to available space, and what specific trouble messages did disk repair give you?


Return to posts index

Marc Israel
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 18, 2018 at 10:42:30 pm

Got 138 GB left on a 500 GB. Sadly, neither time did I notice what message DU gave. It didn't stop, just mentioned repairing or fixing something I believe, than onwards to fix.


Return to posts index

Mark Suszko
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 18, 2018 at 10:48:05 pm

Next time you're going to run it, try initiating a screen recording with Quicktime player first. or shoot the screen with your phone to capture what's happening.


Return to posts index


Marc Israel
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 18, 2018 at 10:56:29 pm

I'm wondering if I should (re)create the problem first (by trying to render that one clip)...so that when I run DU it will have something to fix otherwise already fixed? I'm a little nervous now to do anything that might upset further the Mac's nervous system...Did the info I gave about HD space help shed any light any in terms of diagnosing imminent system drive failure, bad sectors, no room for swap files?


Return to posts index

Mark Suszko
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 18, 2018 at 11:13:40 pm

I'm not an expert. I do know that the way you've set yourself up, the codec choices and whatnot, it's a more processor-intensive and RAM-intensive process than necessary, handling the format conversions and rendering. I think step one has to be, protect the assets, assuming you have no other back-ups. Get that stuff laid off to another drive, or whatever. Then get under the hood and start yanking on things. When your system has insufficient RAM for a task, it borrows space on the hard drive to act as virtual RAM. If the disk has too much stuff on it, or if some sectors of the disk are faulty and unavailable to the system, you could maybe run out of space. This used to be a common problem back in the day, but since you're running obsolete apps and formats, maybe it's not far off.

That fact that running disk repair clears it up, at least temporarily, suggests to me it's a mechanical problem and not software. But again, I'm no expert. Except in very rare cases, I've never known a sick drive to get better again, only worse.

Hey, have you changed or done anything with any of the cables lately? Has *anything* happened in or around this system between when you were running okay and when it started going bad? Power surge or brown-out, accidental re-start, new hardware added, old hardware moved or removed, no matter how insignificant it seems? Any software updates done manually or automatically in the background? Did you say all this stuff was in Time Machine and "grafted" into a new (er) macbook? Have you sprinkled the blood of a chicken over the drive enclosure? Anything?


Return to posts index

Marc Israel
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 18, 2018 at 11:51:27 pm

Mark, again, I really appreciate your input, as am otherwise seemingly alone in sorting this. So thanks for your time and energy. I hear you and others that codec choice and whatnot are not optimal, but again, no trouble at all until this week, and seems all somehow centered around that one render clip that clearly triggers and traumatizes the Mac or FCP brain. But perhaps something to deeply consider switching up regardless of it’s the culprit before I get even much further into the belly of the beast of this project projected to take another 8 months of daily work before complete. Assets protected, check. I’d still like to hear what should yank from under the hood? Songs, films, applications? I just ran AVG cleaner…


“Has *anything* happened in or around this system between when you were running okay and when it started going bad? “
A new MBPro as of two months ago, and yes used a time machine backup from old MBP so that all apps were on new one. All scratch and other FCP files were stored externally. There was something I noticed initially when using FCP at some point, trying to do a particular edit, whereby I think it mentioned the graphics card?…some dialog box never got with the old Mac. One week ago started using brand new Lacie Rugged Road drive with Thunderbolt (first time ever) instead of usual USB. No power surges. A few days ago downloaded Get Bacupk 2RE + MacUpdate desktop and used them to update backups from one drive to another. Absolutely no sprinkled chicken blood, haha, have been without since local sorcery store ran dry…


Return to posts index


David Roth Weiss
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 19, 2018 at 1:00:17 am

Marc,

Sorry, but you’re just spinning your wheels. I already gave you the fix, but it appears you’d rather try everything else but the proper fix. When you’re really serious about fixing your FCP issues and getting back to work just let me know and I’ll come out of retirement to help you.

David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


Return to posts index

Marc Israel
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 19, 2018 at 2:17:59 am

David, thanks for chiming in again. The fix you gave is very welcome as an idea and possible or probable solution, but, because I have never, ever had any issues whatsoever with these sequence settings, including other entirely finished film projects…and because of the dreaded prospect of having to reformat an entire project with thousands of files, about 50 different extended sequences, several micro-projects within the larger project, etc and hope that everything syncs up without creating some other issue(s) in the process…I think it could be understandable that I haven’t been yet ready so far to declare your fix gospel and execute it. Also the advice to run disk utility seemed to led to an entire fix of the project, temporarily, until I recreated the circumstances for the issue again. I am wondering if you can elaborate on why you think the sequence settings is the problem here given the First Aid fix, the issue re-surfacing due to rendering one heavily effect-ed clip, and also given that I have had zero issues with the project for a couple years on/off until now, not to mention other fully completed projects with identical sequence settings for several years now.

There could be a lot of background tech understanding I’m just missing here, because I don’t have a firm grasp of that stuff and how it all relates and interrelates…

Also, if I were to change all the sequence settings, can you give me some idea of what extra muscle I should expect to have flex…like, you mentioned resizing clips - is that something I can do in a batch fashion, maybe using “paste attributes” for example? Should I expect expect to run into any snags or you think it’s a pretty cut and dry procedure? Also, why does FCP create these outdated sequence settings for me automatically when I plop down any of the original HV30 footage into the timeline? Why doesn’t it default to pro-res settings instead, for example?


Return to posts index

Mark Suszko
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 19, 2018 at 2:54:40 am

I'd put money on David being right. Though I suspect you also have drive issues.

As to why FCP7 picked the codec of the same footage you out into it, that's a convenient thing most times, but it's also a default you can set or change. You should have changed it when you started. Much of the drama would have been avoided. I'd tell you to read up on "Easy Setups" but really your ultimate answer is to get with the 21st century and move over to either FCPX or Resolve or (shudders) Premiere. Really, any of the new platforms are great and way more capable for what you want to do. At least half your misery is coming from hanging on to seven. I get nostalgia, truly, I do. Nobody more nostalgic than I am... I also get the "sunken costs fallacy"; you wanna finish this project on the same platform it started on. Jumping away now seems like too much.

I'm picturing you in the scene from the first Pirates of The Caribbean, where Jack Sparrow enters the harbor on a slowly-sinking little boat that's completely submerged to the mast-top by the time it hits the dock.

That's you now. The dock's in sight.

Promise me, if you can't bear to jump ship yet, that you will, once this last project's done. Even I'm doing it this year, at least at home. (I keep a bell jar legacy seven setup at work strictly for authoring interactive DVD's. Which nobody's asked me for in 5 years. But DVDSP was THE BEST, and the shop can't afford the new stuff.)


Return to posts index

Marc Israel
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 19, 2018 at 8:21:40 am

I hope I am not the movie you see in your mind. But perhaps I’m in denial. and that ships already set sail and now sinking in the harbor. In any case I can’t jump ship.
I’m hoping some underwater monster comes up for air and while doing so happens to bring the ship back up on its head just before I drown

It’s not for nostalgia reasons. This is a film project I started nine years ago, a sweeping epic documentary, one which I worked on for two years, then gave it up on, but now am coming back to with fresh vigor and a whole new angle and more footage. And what I have to start again with is practically half the film already made, or at least a very rough draft. Hundreds and hundreds of hours of fine-toothed editing. To start again on another system would essentially be to lose all those hours and need to re-clock just as many before even beginning to tackle the whole revision, which, in itself, will take another several hundreds of hours. So see? I can’t. Just can’t. But I will promise you I’ll jump ship once this project is done. Then, I’ll be ready for the future. For now, I’m married to FCP 7 no matter what grief she gives me.

Regards my FCP 7, I think it’s bell jarred pretty well, the whole package was just transferred via time machine, no updates.


Return to posts index

Marc Israel
Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
on Dec 19, 2018 at 9:46:37 am

I just spent awhile taking David's suggestion making a new sequence to settings of Pro Res 422, square pixels, and copy and paste everything from the current timeline. There's a couple immediate problems. Firstly, the widescreen clips get this big square black border on top and bottom.
Hopefully you can see a photo of it here:

12965_screenshot20181219at1.37.39am.png.zip

No matter what I choose for pixel aspect ratio, it doesn't give me a plain widescreen across the whole screen.


  • Also, any clips I had made larger or cropped are out of whack too, taking up odd aspect ratios overlaid on the square backdrop.
    Have I done something wrong?


    Return to posts index

    David Roth Weiss
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 19, 2018 at 5:23:27 pm

    Marc,

    If you go back and read my initial message you will see that I prognosticated that you’d have to resize some or all of your clips.

    How do you think I knew that Marc? It’s because I’ve helped a few thousand people just like you who don’t begin FCP projects properly and land in editing Hell. The mistakes you make in FCP at the start of a project are cumulative, and they mount as you progress, until FCP chokes. That is where you are now... If you proceed as you were, you will not only struggle with every minute of your editing from this point, but the quality of every frame of your precious video will be, and apparently has been on past projects, inferior to what it could or should be (especially text and graphics).

    So, you can learn how to do things right, and learn how to resize and reposition things quickly as you do, or keep going down the same road.

    David Roth Weiss
    Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
    David Weiss Productions
    Los Angeles


    David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


    Return to posts index

    Marc Israel
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 19, 2018 at 6:35:44 pm

    I'm well-aware of your initial message, it’s what instructed me (how) to do the experiment last night. I was showing the photo of the canvas to explain the actual snag I hit, and hoping someone like you could explain how to troubleshoot. because I can’t. I appreciate your input, but in my last couple responses to you I’ve been asking about my particular project and how it relates to your diagnosis, which would help me understand and feel more assured that this is, in fact, the only explanation and that you're considering the minute particulars. I’m glad you helped thousands of people but that doesn’t go as far as hearing a practical response/explanation about the First Aid, the temporary fix, the retraumatization by recreating the rendering scenario, why there’s been virtually ZERO problems until now (and zero problems again when I run First Aid), etc. I can’t just automatically go on blind faith, turn over my powers of reason to someone even if they obviously have lots more experience. But I would love to get your take on what I keep mentioning. Simultaneously, I AM beginning to experiment with changing the settings, in case I take your advice full throttle, and I have already hit a big snag, which I mentioned, and would love to get a practical fix for it, because otherwise I am stuck there too.


    Return to posts index

    David Roth Weiss
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 19, 2018 at 6:48:22 pm

    Marc,

    I am retired and have far too many fun things to do besides reading overly long posts, and going back and forth between them.

    Please, just stick to the here and now, I don’t really care about all your previous attempts to fix stuff, that’s the past, when you were unsure about what to do.

    So, now that we have that out of the way, other than probably having to repo and resize a boatload of clips and things, to make them right, what other issues do you have?

    FYI, you can just try to fix a few minutes of your timeline, or try editing some new clips on a proper timeline, you’ll find that almost everything will playback in real-time without rendering, becsuse Pro Res is a realtime codec, designed specifically for hi-speed real-time performance.

    David Roth Weiss
    Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
    David Weiss Productions
    Los Angeles


    David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


    Return to posts index

    Marc Israel
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 19, 2018 at 7:59:50 pm

    “Please, just stick to the here and now, I don’t really care about all your previous attempts to fix stuff, that’s the past, when you were unsure about what to do.” David, with all due respect, the ”past” you refer to is, in good measure, what has happened the last 3 days since the original thread. That’s not here and now? But I don’t want to quibble, an instead make use of whatever you have to offer and are offering. So, onwards…

    As mentioned, I cut and pasted an old sequence into a new sequence with the settings you recommended. The photo I affixed shows the result. It’s basically like a form of letterboxing. It’s a square frame with the widescreen footage set in the center with blackness on the top and bottom to compensate for the different shapes (square vs rectangle). This is the first roadblock I immediately ran into. There’s others, but unless I can straighten this one out, I’m stuck.


    Return to posts index

    David Roth Weiss
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 19, 2018 at 8:38:12 pm

    I understand that completely Marc, fixing these is what’s required when you begin a project with improper seq settings. It’s a pain in the butt, however you’ll become much more proficient at these fixes after you learn from doing a few.

    FYI, you best bet on a lot of these clips is to right click, remove all atttibutes, and fix from the clips native attributes. In other words, in resizing and repositioning before, with the bad codec, you most likely made things look right, but they were not really the accomplished properly.


    Meanwhile, where are you located?

    David Roth Weiss
    Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
    David Weiss Productions
    Los Angeles


    David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


    Return to posts index

    Mark Suszko
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 19, 2018 at 2:17:06 am

    Might be a conflict coming from trying to resolve old and new versions of one of the apps copied-over, or a bug in an update. When you run old FCP7 suite systems, you really need to put the entire machine, OS and apps in the equivalent of a bell jar, if you want them to stay stable. No updates. No changes. Hotel California.


    Return to posts index

    Marc Israel
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 20, 2018 at 8:34:45 am

    p.s. Mark
    "However it happened, if clicking on the shot, going into the "motion" tab and and undoing any and all pre-applied scaling and other effects doesn't bring it up to size, it's something you're going to have to manually re-scale, if you insist on using the existing shot. For every such clip. "
    It is not a question of changing the size or scale of the clip I don't think. When I changed the sequence settings as per David's suggestion, the dimensions of the canvas itself changed, creating that letterbox-like look as seen in the photo I affixed.


    Return to posts index

    Marc Israel
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 21, 2018 at 5:19:57 am

    I have looked further into changing all sequence settings on this project, both by reading as well as experimentation. One good thing is that the pixel aspect ration, that you, David, advised (square), is what turned the screen into letterbox but this time around (oddly, none of the options were making the proper canvas shape first time I tried), I was able to get the proper image by using HD 1440x1080, and the same aspect ratio. I could do this either by making a new sequence, and cut/pasting the old sequence, OR by changing the sequence settings in the original sequence. Same difference it seems, yes? So I’m wondering if these settings (with ProRes422 as compressor of course) will be fine, safe, kosher, better, bestest for my project, if I can go ahead and change ‘em all, or if for some reason, they are not, OR I have to tweak some other settings other than the three things listed above. Mark, you mentioned making sure frame rates match. I don’t see anything about frame rates specifically in the sequence settings, but it might be staring me in the face because I’m not abundantly clear on the concept. Am I good to go?


    Return to posts index

    Marc Israel
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 21, 2018 at 5:29:24 am

    Late-breaking: it turns out that, despite the audio clips being cut and pasted with the rest, all the audio plays out of sync w/ the video. Didn't realize this until now as was viewing instrumental bits without sync sound. Not the case when I change settings of original sequence. Can this be explained?


    Return to posts index

    David Roth Weiss
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 17, 2018 at 4:58:19 pm

    What is your camera original material? Is it really HDV? That sequence setting raises a big red flag for me.

    David Roth Weiss
    Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
    David Weiss Productions
    Los Angeles


    David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


    Return to posts index

    Mark Suszko
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 19, 2018 at 8:41:22 pm

    You'd be wise to follow what David's saying; he's a pro.

    It may be that at some point along the way, during ingest or edit, the footage from one of your cams had it's frame size "baked-in" in the wrong ratio. And probably the wrong codec. No telling how much resolution you gave up. However it happened, if clicking on the shot, going into the "motion" tab and and undoing any and all pre-applied scaling and other effects doesn't bring it up to size, it's something you're going to have to manually re-scale, if you insist on using the existing shot. For every such clip. The good news, if any, is that, once you re-size *one of these, select and copy it, then you can (relatively) quickly select and "paste attributes" to the other wrong-scaled clips, greatly reducing the workload. Though the really proper way to fix these, and get the maximum resolution out of them, would be to re-capture/re-import the camera originals in the proper size and codec. Which you refuse to do.

    This is what I'm getting at with the term: "Sunk Costs Fallacy". It's the kind of thinking that turns a pilot into a stain on a canyon wall, when he doubles-down on making it thru the mountain passes in wrong conditions because he's half-way to his destination already, dammit. I could give many more such examples. But this is where you are. You feel that you just can't go back and re-do it right because you're too close to being done. Actually, you're nowhere near. Not if you have standards.

    The question I have for you now though is: what's the hurry, all of a sudden, that you can't go back and do it right?

    Did you think you could make this ready for some festival or contest coming up? Is there funding with a hard limit? Did the doctor call with really bad news? You said this was a passion project that took years of your time. But now it's not worth going back, no matter how inconvenient or tedious, to get it all Just Right? Be honest with yourself, and ask yourself; "in my rush to complete this, am I baking-in all kinds of mistakes and problems that will stand out and make me look incompetent, make the work look flawed, every time it's viewed, forever, and is that truly what I wanted for this project? For myself? That's not what I'd call a Passion project. Passion projects are heartless, cruel, unrelenting things that demand you break your heart and wallet, over and over again, do hard or unpleasant things over and over again, without reward, until the result meets the standard you envisioned at the start. They make you forsake time with loved ones, profit opportunities, everything.

    You know there's work to be done, you've done it before, thanks to experience, you'll actually be faster and better at it this next time around. If this project was ever worth it, it's worth doing right. Dave told you how to fix it. I'm telling you how "not" to go about fixing it. But you already knew that, deep down, I'm betting.


    Return to posts index

    David Roth Weiss
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 19, 2018 at 8:49:26 pm

    Mark has hit the nail on the head Marc...

    We all know how difficult it is to make these projects even under the best conditions, but when started incorrectly being creative in FCP becomes secondary to simply hoping you can get it to work.

    David Roth Weiss
    Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
    David Weiss Productions
    Los Angeles


    David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


    Return to posts index

    Mark Suszko
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 19, 2018 at 8:53:59 pm

    I don't say that because I'm especially wise now, but because in the past I have been excessively foolish. ☺

    Been there/donethat/re-did that/


    Return to posts index

    Marc Israel
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 20, 2018 at 7:21:43 am

    Fellows, I had to take a little break/space from this today as I am having trouble containing my exasperation over this present issue and the various possible hardships that lay ahead. I am hearing different things from different people, namely the two of you. Mark, my namesake, and David, name of my only brother. Ominous notions have floated such as an imminent system drive failure, bad sectors (what could sound worst then “bad sectors”?…even though I don’t know what sectors are), a outdated and/or corrupted application, sequence settings all wrong. One of you are so assured of the problem you are are ready for me to accept your gospel word and employ untold new work hours into fixing sequence settings despite the fact that I’ve had no issue at all with the settings for ages, and, if by chance, he is wrong and the problem persists, or I learn eventually through some Parallel Universe Entity that an easier solution was available all along, and that I was a victim of jumping-the gun, I will want to kill him, despite ideals of pacifism.

    Mark, your language makes me laugh. “Stain on a canyon wall,” and your pep on passion projects is in all aspect received harmonious and in spirit…with well, the spirit of this film itself, which once was a fiction film that suffered so many setbacks it finally had to be forsaken or face the men w/ the butterfly nets. But have now come back to it years later and see it in a new light - that it is in fact a documentary about, among other things, the hardships, tests, travails, and failures about trying to complete that desperate film, mishaps so monumental their amusement value just might be deserving of a feature-length film to fully express, although by now it’s a film of myriad themes and sub-plots as well.

    “The question I have for you now though is: what's the hurry, all of a sudden, that you can't go back and do it right? “

    The scope of this project is huge, as in HUMONGOUS. It far outweighs any feature-length film I’ve made regarding volume of clips, number of sequences, in tightness and density of editing, not to mention storyline, cast of “characters”, scenes, etc. I also have often edited this film in a controlled, yet spontaneous way, whereby sometimes feel like I’m almost painting as much as editing. And the film is only a third finished. And yet it was almost 2 years of work. And no I’m not bragging, what I’m saying or asking is am I gonna take the word of one or both of you and put myself through unspeakable tedium revising all these sequence settings….or…gasp…start from scratch on a new app and create all these same exact edits, thousands of minutely-honed in IN and Out points, replicate the exact seconds of cross-dissolves or some other carefully chosen transition, the color correction of each of thousands of clips on these painting-like frames??? eek gadd gadd god help me…or even more torturous, to reimport footage? choke choke cough cough that is to cruel andIi can barely breathe due to the daunting prospect and horror, which I’d surely never survive in one piece. Really. I can only "go back" so far. Otherwise I will simply not be able to maintain a daily schedule or eating and sleeping. I will turn to slop, I will run naked in the streets twirling my dirty underwear and shouting obscenities. Every man has his breaking point.

    It remains to be seen what I will, in fact, do. It will be something, that’s for sure. Because time in the old ticker is ticking, yes the doc has bad news, and every day spent in limbo on this is the sound of screeching bats echoing through my skull.

    David, I’m in Los Angeles. Why do you ask?


    Return to posts index

    Mark Suszko
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 20, 2018 at 2:56:36 pm

    "David, I’m in Los Angeles. Why do you ask?"


    To see if you're Canadian, because you're starting to sound like you might be Ryan's alt.


    I don't think there's anything left to discuss here. You've made your position pretty clear. Best of luck to you.


    Return to posts index

    David Roth Weiss
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 20, 2018 at 6:01:59 pm

    Marc,

    The fact is, you’ve been using FCP improperly for years and on many projects, and thus you don’t know what you’re been missing all this time, and so you’re unwilling to do the necessary work to get things straightened out. I get it, you’re a proud independent creative dude, and you’ve relied on your own logic, instincts, and anecdotal evidence throughout your life in all of your creative endeavors, so it’s hard to change now.

    Well, I’ve encountered and fixed these issues oodles of times, I’ve also worked for oodles of folks throughout my 40+ years in Hollywood who ask for my expert help, but then fail to listen, instead relying on their own logic, instincts, and anecdotal experience, so I’m wise enough and experienced enough to know when it’s time to say good night and good luck.

    So, I wish you the best of luck in this and in all your future endeavors.

    David Roth Weiss
    Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
    David Weiss Productions
    Los Angeles


    David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


    Return to posts index

    Marc Israel
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 20, 2018 at 7:46:55 pm

    Hey fellas,
    David: “you’re a proud independent creative dude, and you’ve relied on your own logic, instincts, and anecdotal evidence throughout your life in all of your creative endeavors, so it’s hard to change now.”
    Mark “ You've made your position pretty clear. “

    I’m not sure I recognize the guy you are describing as the person I see in bathroom mirror everyday. Maybe it just needs a good cleaning (it's too close to the sink and water regularly splashes up, creating a kind of grime over time). We all know it can be challenging at times to express...things, whether they be highly technical or highly emotional, through writing. If I have given the impression that I am not open to change, or that I have ANY firm position on this topic, then I’ve failed with my words. I have been open to the idea of changing the sequence settings, enough to begin to do exactly that, to see how it might work, to employ the workflow. What I ran into was the issue with the framing of the image, represented in the photo I attached several posts back. As recent as my last email, I was reporting on the inability to solve that problem, hoping for further instruction. The fix that you offered, Mark, unfortunately wasn’t applicable to the actual issue and it otherwise was not addressed.

    You guys have been exceedingly generous with your time and thoughts, and so if you wanna clear this thread and head for greater vistas, we can end it here. I am not “unwilling” to do what needs to be done, at least not certain things: I can consider changing all sequence settings, for example, but…starting the whole project over, on the other hand, is simply out of the question because I can’t do that, it’s literally not earthly possible for several practical reasons, which I tried my best to explain. AND, if the issue truly IS the sequence settings, not matter how much work that would take to reset, it would still be eons less work than starting from scratch. And so I simply want to understand all of what’s involved, and also part of what I was last expressing was that there have been multiple diagnosis projections on this lowly populated thread, each with their own implications and troubleshooting workflow and there does seem room for reasonable doubt, at least within my own brain’s chemistry, because of how all things ad up or don’t. But, as said, I must do something, and I’m trying to go the sequence settings route, for starters, but have immediate run into a snag I can’t fix.


    Return to posts index

    Marc Israel
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 20, 2018 at 8:22:42 pm

    Ok I just reread some of pervious posts, and can understand well enough the portrait painted of stubborn, in-denial, defiant-in-the-face-of-facts filmmaker because of my own past inbred blissful ignorance, yes ok I concede there's that aspect. But I've also been digesting, even with the bitter taste, the tonics you two talk of, taking in the flavor without wholly vomiting from the innate agitation produced from the flammable mix therein. But I can't get past the letterboxing...


    Return to posts index

    David Roth Weiss
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 20, 2018 at 8:46:29 pm

    Marc,

    BS Marc, you CAN fix those letterbox issues, you just don’t know how to do it yet, and you’re allowing your fear of the unknown to overwhelm you.

    I can log into your Mac remotely online, and I can teach you how to make the fixes you need on every type of clip you have, which you can then copy and paste to every other similar clip in your project. I charge $100/hour for my services, and if my fixes don’t fix things you pay $0.

    ***My 65th birthday is tomorrow, so that’s out, and my weekend rate is 2X - so, if you decide you’d like my help, I’d recommend getting started today or early next week. If you want to continue on your own, my feelings will not be hurt.

    David Roth Weiss
    Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
    David Weiss Productions
    Los Angeles


    David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


    Return to posts index

    Marc Israel
    Re: Full FCP 7 Assault - Out of Memory, Dropped Frames, Playback Trouble suddenly.
    on Dec 20, 2018 at 8:54:30 pm

    David, I never said I couldn't fix the letterbox issues. I only said I don't know how to to fix them, point blank.

    Thanks for your offer. My budget for this film is exactly $0, so I will have to consider that as a very last option, and only then after a robbing a bank.

    Meanwhile happy 65th!!


    Return to posts index

    << PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
    © 2019 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
    [TOP]