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Swap 720p to 1080p source files – Both picture and audio out of sync…

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Tim Cromar
Swap 720p to 1080p source files – Both picture and audio out of sync…
on Mar 23, 2017 at 3:25:49 pm

Hello

I opened an old FCP7 project with 720p [cineform codec .mov] source files on a 720p / 25fps (PAL) timeline. I still have the original 1080p camera files (5DMK2 .mov). I wanted to uprez the original project to 1080p. So I transcode the 1080p camera files to 1080p [cineform codec] using MPEG streamclip – just as I did years ago with the 720p version.

I move the 720p clips out of the source folder and replace them with the same named1080p .mov clips. I open the project and relink the clips if necessary.

Here's the problem: The timeline remains the same running time and the physical cuts are all in the correct place *but* all the video and the audio is many seconds out of sync – not only with itself, but the IN and OUT points are all incorrect! I then have to manually slip each audio and picture track back into their 'slots'.

I must be missing something very simple but I can't fathom out how I've broken it, and how to fix it! Any ideas please?

Many thanks

Tim, UK.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Swap 720p to 1080p source files – Both picture and audio out of sync…
on Mar 23, 2017 at 4:10:13 pm

To confirm -- you did not use FCP's Media Manager for this task, correct?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Tim Cromar
Re: Swap 720p to 1080p source files – Both picture and audio out of sync…
on Mar 23, 2017 at 4:15:21 pm

Hi Dave.

Thanks for the response. You are correct. I did not!

Tim


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Swap 720p to 1080p source files – Both picture and audio out of sync…
on Mar 25, 2017 at 1:06:05 am

Now understand, I've never had to do this. I don't even know HOW to do this. But what you want to do certainly sounds like a job for the Media Manager.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Nick Meyers
Re: Swap 720p to 1080p source files – Both picture and audio out of sync…
on Mar 25, 2017 at 10:11:31 am

hi Tim

did you cross-check the720 files with the new 1080 files?
check to see if they are actually in sync?
with the time-codes matching?

i would do that first, then correct any errors,
THEN finally do the re-connect.

you don't really need the Media Manager to help with the reconnect,
but it would make the conversion to 1080 simpler:

use Media Manager on your 720p sequences,
set it to "Create Offline", and set your sequences to cineform 1080p.
you'd have to make a new sequence preset first.
base media file names on file names, not clip names



nick


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Tim Cromar
Re: Swap 720p to 1080p source files – Both picture and audio out of sync…
on Mar 25, 2017 at 11:40:07 am

Thanks Dave, Nick for your help.

Looking back, I remembered that during the transcode in MPEG Streamclip I had [stoopidly] set INs and OUTs to trim large clips. When I realised this yesterday I knew it was my fault! Doh! I don't think there's any alternative but lots of work with the SLIP tool to rectify this on the 1080p clips – especially since as they came from a 5D2 they never had any proper timecode embedded anyway!

From now on I'll injec proper timecode into my clips with QTchange https://www.videotoolshed.com/product/qtchange/ and leave any clip trim to the timeline. Then I'll follow the Media Manager method to Online it. Lesson learned.

Thanks!

Tim


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Nick Meyers
Re: Swap 720p to 1080p source files – Both picture and audio out of sync…
on Mar 25, 2017 at 12:05:18 pm

or....

you could re-ingest the 1080 clips, without trimming

or

as you have audio, you could use plural eyes (or something similar) to sync the 720 and 1080 clips,
and then copy the timecodes from one to the other,
that'd be a (relatively) simple macro to build in Quickeys or Keyboard Maestro.


nick


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Nick Meyers
Re: Swap 720p to 1080p source files – Both picture and audio out of sync…
on Mar 25, 2017 at 12:08:36 pm

actually that's too complicated,
just use pluraleyes to re-sync the new clips to your EDIT
(I'm hoping that's possible?)


nick


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Tim Cromar
Re: Swap 720p to 1080p source files – Both picture and audio out of sync…
on Mar 25, 2017 at 12:11:22 pm

Hi Nick

I think Resolve has a similar auto-sync clips; which I will try, thanks! But how would it help line up the synced clips with the edit point on the timeline – surely the'd still need to slipped by hand/eye?


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Nick Meyers
Re: Swap 720p to 1080p source files – Both picture and audio out of sync…
on Mar 25, 2017 at 12:23:00 pm

[Tim Cromar] "But how would it help line up the synced clips with the edit point on the timeline – surely the'd still need to slipped by hand/eye?"

i was suggesting there's be a second stage where you'd copy the timecode across from one clip to the other,
assuming you've got them layered on two tracks

i myself have another kind of kooky method using match frames,
but it;s a lot of keystrokes and would probably need a macro app like Keyboard Maestro, or Quickeys

i've outlined another method of eye-matching in another reply.
but shut for the heck of it, i'll outline my kooky match-frame method next...


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Nick Meyers
Re: Swap 720p to 1080p source files – Both picture and audio out of sync…
on Mar 25, 2017 at 12:38:59 pm

as i say, just for the heck of it, here is my match-frame method


you have your original correct edit on one timeline,
and your synced layers, back from plural eyes in an adjacent one.

you park on your first clip in the edit timeline

f to match frame
Q to toggle to the canvas
Shift Command [ to tab across to the other timeline
f to do a reverse match-frame to find that frame in the timeline
(there might have to be "home" key before f, as sometimes match-frame will only look forward and not backward)

now, the track with the new clips needs to be your auto-select track
and we do a similar dance:

f to match frame
Q to toggle to the canvas
Shift Command ] to tab across to the first timeline
F11 to do a replace edit back into the other timeline

jump to the next clip, and repeat.


these are the crazy things i get up to on a Saturday night ☺ (here in Australia).

although, i reckon it's not too long before we have a visual equivalent to PLuraleyes that will make his sort of thing a piece of cake.


cheers,
nick


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Nick Meyers
Re: Swap 720p to 1080p source files – Both picture and audio out of sync…
on Mar 25, 2017 at 12:18:39 pm

hmm... not sure that is possible... i don't use Pluraleyes much.

but i don't think the slip too is the best tool.
are you working to a guide export from the original project?

i;d put that maybe UNDERNEATH the new clips, an make them invisible (Control B)
make v2 your auto-select track, and also your target track.
parked on the first clip, match frame it into the viewer.
you can see the guide in the canvas, and you've got the new clip in the viewer, where it;s very easy to find the frame that matches.

it's pretty easy to verify this by sending your video out to an external monitor, it can even be a second computer monitor,
you can then toggle between the viewer or the canvas being displayed on this monitor by hitting the Q key
when you've got the right frame there won't be any different when you toggle the Q key

when you've got the right frame, do a REPLACE EDIT (F11) to edit it back into the timeline in the correct spot.



hope that helps
nick


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Tim Cromar
Re: Swap 720p to 1080p source files – Both picture and audio out of sync…
on Mar 25, 2017 at 12:21:31 pm

Nick

What a great idea! Yes, I have been working from an export in the source monitor. I will definitely try this method and report back. Thank you plenty for your suggestions!

Tim


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Tim Cromar
Re: Swap 720p to 1080p source files – Both picture and audio out of sync…
on Mar 31, 2017 at 3:33:47 pm

Nick

I tried to follow your detailed match-frame method, but I think I messed-up somewhere! Firstly I couldn't get pluraleyes to re-sync the audio to picture (it kept throwing a weird error code). Had to resort to matching by eye to the original render and slipping audio back in. Very time-consuming! 😲

I'd like to know where I went wrong with your method though. I think I might not have understood the:
" the track with the new clips needs to be your auto-select track and we do a similar dance…:"

Did you mean the targeted V1 or A1 track slider button? I think this is where I went wrong. If you ever have the time, I'd love to try it again and get it working!

Thanks again.

Tim


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