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mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size

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Eric Ben
mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 3, 2015 at 5:17:20 pm

Need to edit an mp4 in FCP7. The file is a 22 min. HD vid, 1080x1920 and 760MB in size.

Knowing that ProRes 422 is most stable, I dropped that into compressor and rendered it out in LT. It turned my 760MB file into a 13.8g file!

So I tried the using proxy setting... the audio sounded sped up and the file size wasn't much smaller.

What am I doing wrong? Any advice on another stable codec for FCP? This isn't for broadcast, doesn't have to be to full spec, so maybe ProRes is overkill?

Thanks kindly.


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Todd Gillespie
Re: mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 3, 2015 at 6:36:14 pm

Hi Ben,

I tried a handful of different codecs over the years to see if there was any other codec that would be close to the quality, but with a smaller size as ProRes was, unfortunately I never found one. ProRes was always the best choice and the easiest to work with. Especially when dealing with HD footage, I don't think you have a choice. I usually never dealt with LT because the little savings in space wasn't worth the time to deal with.

Yes, ProRes is about a GB per minute. Welcome to the world of quality HD footage. Hard drive space is cheap. You'll spend more time and effort trying not use ProRes, than to accept the larger file size issue.

Sorry there wasn't more options,
Good Luck,
Todd

Todd at UCSB
Television Production


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Eric Ben
Re: mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 3, 2015 at 6:41:16 pm

Thanks kindly for the advice.

Yeah in the time since posting this I've dug around the web and come to the same conclusion. So to highjack the initial topic, do you know anything better/faster than compressor? I downloaded the trial of Brorsoft and I think it may be faster. I also like the interface better. I have Sorenson Squeeze and Streamclip, but got the impression it was better to use Compressor because it's native to the OS and FCP (?) but not sure that has any bearing...

Thanks again.


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Todd Gillespie
Re: mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 3, 2015 at 6:55:22 pm

Yes, the rendering is the real time killer. I haven't used Brorsoft, so I have no idea of the quality. Chances are there's not much of a time savings, but it depends on what output you are trying to render to. I've found some compressors that work great with one codec (like MPEG-2) but not be any quicker with others. So you might find one compressor that works better with the favor of video output that you are looking for. As to the quality, it shouldn't matter which compressor software you use. The output codec should dictate the quality. You will be fine using Sorenson or Streamclip, Compressor is great if you want to access some of the features like the Frame Conversion or setting up chapter markers for DVDs, but if you don't need it, then there's no benefit.

Good Luck,
Todd

Todd at UCSB
Television Production


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Eric Strand
Re: mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 3, 2015 at 7:40:43 pm

Hey Eric, not sure if you have Compressor 4 or 3.5.3, but you could try setting up a cluster to export multiple files at the same time. You have to uncheck Allow Job Segmenting in Compressor 3, as seen in this video:






@ericstrand11


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Mark Suszko
Re: mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 4, 2015 at 7:06:55 pm

The other work-around is to spend money on hardware-based compression, but it's not any cheaper.


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Eric Ben
Re: mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 4, 2015 at 8:31:20 pm

I'm running Compressor 3.5.3 which I believe is most up-to-date for FCP 7. I know there is a v.5 for FCPX but there's no way I'm touching that... :)

Thanks.

I've been happy with the Brorsoft over the last few days. It output the same ProRes 422 (LT and Proxy) as Compressor 3 in less time and at a third the size. Not trashing compressor, I realize I'm using an older version that's trying to handle newer codecs.

I guess a lot of the leg work is finding stuff that works for your workflow too, as above poster pointed out.

Thanks again!


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Eric Strand
Re: mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 5, 2015 at 2:37:25 am

A third of the size?? That doesn't seem right. ProRes' bitrate settings are set by Apple, it should be coming out around the same size unless you're down-scaling or changing frame rate.

Hopefully someone else can either corroborate or explain why there would be such a discrepancy in the file size.

@ericstrand11


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Eric Ben
Re: mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 5, 2015 at 6:59:25 pm

Yeah the 780m file rendered by compressor to 422 ended up as 13 gig! When I used Brorsoft it was like 4+ gig. Yes there is a slider on the brorsoft that lets you reduce the quality but I didn't touch that. But points to them over compressor for the interface: very user friendly.


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Shane Ross
Re: mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 5, 2015 at 7:15:57 pm

If that file works well in FCP, at a third the size...I'd be amazed.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Walter Soyka
Re: mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 5, 2015 at 7:21:06 pm

[Eric Strand] "A third of the size?? That doesn't seem right. ProRes' bitrate settings are set by Apple, it should be coming out around the same size unless you're down-scaling or changing frame rate. Hopefully someone else can either corroborate or explain why there would be such a discrepancy in the file size. "

Apple ProRes is technically variable bit-rate. Apple provides target bitrates, and the official ProRes encoder is pretty tightly constrained.

I imagine this software uses an unofficial ProRes encoder, probably based on ffmpeg. Depending on the ProRes implementation and settings they are using under the hood, you could get all kinds of unexpected file sizes. It should still be decoded fine by the official Apple ProRes decoder, but Apple makes no guarantees.

http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT200321

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Eric Strand
Re: mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 6, 2015 at 2:48:48 pm

Thanks Walter, appreciate the info.

@ericstrand11


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John Rofrano
Re: mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 8, 2015 at 3:07:43 pm

[Eric Ben] " I know there is a v.5 for FCPX but there's no way I'm touching that... :) "
Why wouldn't you touch that? Apple Compressor 4 is an independent $49 purchase. You can simply buy it and use it on it's own without FCP X. (...or will it disrupt your FCP 7 workflow? I don't know I don't use FCP 7)

I just want to point out that the Brorsoft web site has an extremely poor rating on Web Of Trust as NOT being Trustworthy. I would seriously question even going to that site and would never download anything from it. I'm going to guess that are not selling a licensed ProRes encoder.

(BTW, If you're not using the WOT plug-in for your Safari browser I can highly recommend it. It will do a good job of keeping you away from disreputable sites that pose as legitimate ones.)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Eric Ben
Re: mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 9, 2015 at 4:37:38 pm

Thanks! I mean I wouldn't touch FCP 10. That may open up another argument but I'm another one of those who beleve 7 to be a better interface. As for Brorsoft, I downloaded it and am using it on my system without flaw. No bugs, no maleware, no problem. I'm always looking for options, hence my (first time) posting here.


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Eric Strand
Re: mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 12, 2015 at 4:12:31 pm

From a workflow standpoint only, if you considered using FCP 10, you could've just dropped the mp4 on your time line and let FCP do the rendering in the background while you were editing away. I make this point not to say FCP 10 is better or worse, but that it could've simplified your workflow and saved time in this instance.

@ericstrand11


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John Rofrano
Re: mp4 to ProRes generates MASSIVE file size
on Feb 13, 2015 at 4:08:15 am

[Eric Strand] "I make this point not to say FCP 10 is better or worse, but that it could've simplified your workflow and saved time in this instance."
I was going to say the same thing. If you were using FCP X you wouldn't be making this post, you'd already be editing your native MP4 video. Just something to consider.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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