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Insecure Editor

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Pam Timson
Insecure Editor
on Dec 11, 2013 at 4:10:36 pm

i am digitizing 100's of hours of DV minis shot on VX1000 Sony and DVX100 Panasonic and have neither the knowledge nor equipment to confirm the quality of my digitized material. Seeking your approval or recommendations!

I am planning to use a Sony DSR-11 deck with Final Cut 6.06. I do not know the finally use, just want do what I have to do to maximize the quality of my digitizing process.

1) Is my choice of deck and final cut 6 best? I have been told by third party that I need to upgrade to FCP 7 and use Pro Res codec. However your forum previously said that FCP 6.06 in DV NTSC is fine...its all 0 and 1s. (i told you I was insecure. ;-)

2) The material shot on VX1000 gets sample rate errors, so I created my own presets. Please confirm all is correct: DV NTSC DVCPRO; Frame Size 720x480 3:2; 29.97 frames per second, 32 kHz 16 bit; data rate 3.6 MB/sec; Pixel Aspect NTSC-CCIR 601.

3) I shot with wireless lav on channel 1 and shot-gun on 2. I set capture presets to two mono. Does this gives me seperated audio channels?

4) DV1000 and DVX100 have different audio sample rates. Will I have any problems in editing if I digitize tapes according to sample rate they were shot at?

5) Any other words of wisdom?

Thank you for all your help! You make big things possible for little people and that is a true blessing!


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Shane Ross
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 11, 2013 at 5:52:59 pm

1) Any DV deck or camera will work, as all that is happening is a file transfer, from tape to FCP. Use the DV/NTSC (or DV/PAL if in Europe) Easy Setup and you are good to go. No need for ProRes, that increases the file size with no increase in quality...besides you'll need more than a deck and firewire connection in order to do that. And FCP 6 is fine. FCP has been capturing DV native since FCP 1. DESIGNED for it.

2) DV is 720x480, 48Khz 16 bit, 29.97. 3:2 is pulldown, only to be done if your camera shoots in a 24p format, and the VX1000 does not.

3) Yes.

4) I've never captured anything less than 48KHz...the DV preset sets it to that. You have issues when you do this?

5) Don't take any wooden nickels.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Pam Timson
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 11, 2013 at 7:38:07 pm

Ummm "3:2 is a pull-down...24p" and I shot standard so I assume that means that the 50+ video that I already digitized as Capture Preset "DV NTSC 48 kHz" with the width/height at 720x480 and Aspect ratio as NTSC DV (3:2). needs to be re-digitized with a corrected aspect ratio, and that correct setting is "NTSC" with a width/height 640x480 and Aspect Ratio of NTSC (4:3)? Did I take a wooden nickel?


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Shane Ross
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 11, 2013 at 7:41:59 pm

[Pam Timson] "Aspect ratio as NTSC DV (3:2)."

OH...that's aspect ratio. 3:2? not 4:3? That seems odd.

No need to recapture.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Pam Timson
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 11, 2013 at 8:12:00 pm

Yes, I believe so. If I click on "Audio/Video Settings" and under "Summary" tab and choose "Capture Preset" "DV NTSC 48 kHz", then click "Capture Preset" the DV NTSC 48 kHz is highlighted. If I click "Edit" a warning message comes up "the selected preset is locked and cannot be modified." When the computer creates a copy (that provides more information about the presets) it reads: NTSC DV (3:2); Frame Size 720x480; and compressor DV/DVCPro-NTSC.

Okay I just conducted a test by digitizing a tape using computer preset DV NTSC 48 kHz. The following error message appears: The audio sample rate of one or more of your captured media files does not match the sample rate on your source tape. ...this may cause files to be out of sync Make sure the audio sample are of preset matches tape."

How do I find out wether the clip was digitized in 3:2 or 4:3 ? Wow talk about digitizing 101!


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Shane Ross
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 11, 2013 at 8:17:25 pm

Sorry, it's been YEARS since I've captured DV, and when I did, I always used the presets.

IS your footage out of synch when you play it? It might not be. If so, then modify the preset (duplicate it first) and set to 32KHz...I guess.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Pam Timson
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 11, 2013 at 8:26:13 pm

I have been digitizing with a custom preset of 32 kHz and that solved the Audio Sample Rate issue, no more error messages, so I guess I am on the right track. But what about the Frame size of 720x480 with NTSC DV 3:2, is that correct? I don't mean to be difficult i just want to make sure I am doing things right. i to digitize 500 hours in wrong Frame size.


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Shane Ross
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 11, 2013 at 8:36:00 pm

Just look at the footage, if it looks right, then it's right. If it looks squished or stretched, then it's not.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Pam Timson
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 11, 2013 at 8:41:36 pm

That's the thing sometimes I think it looks a little off and sometimes it looks okay. Fine line between 3:2 and 4:3. These tapes date to 1997 to 2004 and may not hold up under several captures. I want to be positive I have the right capture setting. Any ideas on how to be sure?


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Pam Timson
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 11, 2013 at 8:33:03 pm

I have been digitizing with a custom preset of 32 kHz and that solved the Audio Sample Rate issue, no more error messages and less syncing problems, so I guess I am on the right track. But what about the Frame size of 720x480 with NTSC DV 3:2 is that correct? I don't mean to be difficult i just want to make sure I am doing things right. i don t want to digitize 500 hours in wrong Frame size.


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Pam Timson
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 11, 2013 at 8:19:34 pm

In reference to test I just ran with Preset DV NTSC the Item Properties reads that the clip Frame size is 720x480 so assume its still 3:2 and its supposed to be 4:3?


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Mark Suszko
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 11, 2013 at 10:07:56 pm

I still don't understand where the 3:2 comes in, 3:2 usually refers to "pulldown" for footage shot with a film-like frame shutter applied to imitate a film frame rate of 24P.

3x4 is sometimes used to describe the ASPECT RATIO of the DV standard def old style TV screen. Are you sure you're not mixing up the pulldown rate information with the aspect ratio?


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Pam Timson
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 11, 2013 at 11:52:36 pm

Yes I must be mixed up. I am trying to confirm the proper Frame Size and Aspect Ratio for DV MIni footage shot in standard. Can you recommend? Using FCP 6.06 NTSC DV.


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Pam Timson
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 12, 2013 at 12:16:04 am

Yes I must be mixed up. I am trying to confirm the proper Capture Presets for DV mini tape shot on VX 1000 in standard definition. What is correct frame size and Aspect Ratio setting?


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Eric Strand
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 12, 2013 at 7:59:56 pm

He's not, when I pull up FCP 6 and load the sequence preset DV NTSC 48 kHz, the aspect ratio is NTSC DV (3:2). I've always wondered what the deal with that is. Rafael seems to answer it in this thread here: http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/200/889894



@ericstrand11


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John Fishback
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 12, 2013 at 10:37:20 pm

Yes, 720x480 uses rectangular pixels (I think .9 ratio) vs square pixels for 640x480. It's been a while. You can get totally confused by reading this from Wikipedia.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.8.4, QT10.1, Kona 3, Dual Cinema 23, ATI Radeon HD 5870, 24" TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCS 3 (FCP 7.0.3, Motion 4.0.3, Comp 3.5.3, DVDSP 4.2.2, Color 1.5.3)
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Pam Timson
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 13, 2013 at 12:36:28 am

Well that explains it and I did try to research my question through Wikipedia and it did completely confuse me! However I still have this nagging insecurity about my workflow strategy. I want to get the very best from these DV mini tapes. We hope to enter in film festivals. The tapes are old and won't hold up under repeated play/digitizing. Are the settings kindly provided by Eric in a previous reply i.e. "FCP 6.06 DV NTSC preset" the very best I can get? Many thanks to all for your input!


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Mark Suszko
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 13, 2013 at 1:20:27 am

I think they are the right settings. Capturing them in pro res wouldn't add any quality and would just add size. See, in the DV mode, you're making a straight bit-for-bit transfer, so, either the bits are there, or they are not. Your worry is a carry-over from the analog video days, where you would have wanted the most bandwidth possible to retard the loss of any picture and color information. But those days are gone.

That said, if you want to baby those DV tapes, I would suggest using a Panasonic DVCpro25 deck, if you can access one. They are downwards-compatible with consumer Dv tapes as long as they are not in super-long-play recording mode. They would be kinder to the tape and they have superior error-correction circuitry to help get the most out of old tapes that have wrinkles or patches of emulsion flaking off. Any DV transport will work of course, even one out of a busted camcorder from the thrift shop, but I'm just saying the pro machine would be a bit more reliable, if you can get one for the project.


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Pam Timson
Re: Insecure Editor
on Dec 13, 2013 at 1:44:57 am

Great! Now this old dinosaur is feeling the earth again! I've digitized 50 hours on a sony DSR-11 as a "capture now," and settings to ignore drop outs. Footage stays synced. But can not use batch capture. If system fails I will look into Panasonic DVCpro25 deck as suggested. Question: Should I be viewing digitized material through certain hardware / software to make sure alls good, or if it sounds good and looks good on computer its okay and the rest will be handled in post? Can't thank you enough for the help!


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