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matt Searles
progressive to interlaced
on Jan 19, 2011 at 3:46:10 pm

so.. I'm doing some video work with a friend of mine.. and I'm trying to author a DVD for a client of his.. trouble is the footage he shot.. was in progressive HD and the DVD is interlaced SD and it looks like crap.. My understanding is that you gotta shoot with an eye for your distribution method... but.. I don't know.. what's the story?


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Chris Tompkins
Re: progressive to interlaced
on Jan 19, 2011 at 5:10:58 pm

DVD's can be progressive too.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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matt Searles
Re: progressive to interlaced
on Jan 19, 2011 at 5:38:25 pm

I'm trying to export everything progressive now.. but I don't know why stuff looks so crappy if this isn't the issue.. or if maybe the try and make it interlaced.. and not leave that to the DVD.. is what made it crappy? I'm hoping so.


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Chris Tompkins
Re: progressive to interlaced
on Jan 19, 2011 at 7:28:19 pm

Well, how are your creating the DVD?

You Should Edit in HD.
Output file "current Settings" making a ref file.
Drop that into compressor and select the DVD preset.
Turn frame controls on.
Select better or best.
Adjust data rate to best match your program length.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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matt Searles
Re: progressive to interlaced
on Jan 19, 2011 at 7:40:53 pm

what are frame controls? I've been using DVD Best Quality 150 minutes.. and like 120 minutes.. may have done one at 90 minutes.. so I haven't really gone beyond presets.. other then that, as nearly as I can tell, I've been doing exactly as you recommend


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Chris Tompkins
Re: progressive to interlaced
on Jan 19, 2011 at 8:26:56 pm

In compressor.



Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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matt Searles
Re: progressive to interlaced
on Jan 19, 2011 at 9:40:31 pm

thanks man, you're awesome!

now lets prey this works..


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matt Searles
Re: progressive to interlaced
on Jan 19, 2011 at 11:45:25 pm

so here's a question, how long should rendering take?

I got Resize filter set to nearest pixels, de interlace to best... motion compensated.. out put same as source...

I'm on a 3 year old 2.8 GHz 8 core Mac Pro with 6GB ram.. on leapord... only thing is my dhard drive has like.... never little in the way of available hard disk space for application memory...

Compressor... set on high priority... its projecting that this will take in the 300 hour department... is that normal? Am I maybe doing something wrong?


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Chris Tompkins
Re: progressive to interlaced
on Jan 20, 2011 at 11:35:19 am

Make sure in the Video Format Tab your Field dom is set to progressive if your footage is prog.



Also, best will take longer to render then better.
The time may shorten as it goes. It will take awhile depending on your program length and horsepower.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Jeff Greenberg
Re: progressive to interlaced
on Jan 20, 2011 at 3:00:36 pm

No, it's going to take forever. It's a flaw in compressor - there's a way to get this to be faster - separate the downconversion from the compression.
Look at chaining in the compressor manual.

Best,

Jeff G

Apple Master Trainer
Avid Cert. Instructor DS/MC
Avid & Color Videos Vasst.com
Compressor Essentials Lynda.com


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matt Searles
Re: progressive to interlaced
on Jan 21, 2011 at 2:30:44 pm

So I guess I have a bunch of questions.

I'm told you can make a progressive SD DVD, and the DVD box converts it? I'm new to trying to understanding DVD technology.. but it all seems so primitive to me that I suspect if you did that the resulting DVD would be compatible with fewer DVD players and or there might be certain pro's and con's between letting a DVD player do the conversion versus doing it at the authoring stage.

The next question is... is there a path I should take? It looks like the footage I have is apple's intermediary codec.. Somewhere.. I'm thinking I'll need to transcode as a part of the down conversion.. is there a less-lossy option to go to that makes sense, prior to compressing it for DVD?

Another question is.. when shooting video.. on my camera, and that of my friend whom I'm working on this project with.. there's an option for recording which.. I gather gives you all the information for both progressive and interlaced and.. I had it in my head that that was the mode I'd probably be wanting to use if I were producing stuff for broadcast distribution or.. whatever.. I hear nightmares from some film makers about shooting in the wrong format for where there work is eventually to go...

So my question is.. does it matter? Or, how much does it matter? As this other HD recording formating.. uses up a tun of space.. I got like a Mac Pro with 4 internal drives and a drobo.. and space is tight as it is..

I guess another question is.. well is it me or does it not seem like it would be a common thing to want to convert HD to DVD? I mean.. is it not? And if it is.. how is it possible that Compressor would have this bug?

Anyway thanks.. and I've been digging your lynda.com training videos Jeff


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Chris Tompkins
Re: progressive to interlaced
on Jan 21, 2011 at 3:55:38 pm

Wow, Well there is a ton of HD formats and frame rates and options when shooting. You need to read up on HD formats.

Don't convert/compress/transcode your finished vid b/4 going to dvd - this is adding another step of compression (bad)

Shot and edit in HD.
Output current settings making a ref file.
Drop that into compressor
make dvd files
import into DVDSP
Burn.

Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC


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Jeff Greenberg
Re: progressive to interlaced
on Jan 21, 2011 at 5:17:32 pm

Matt,

First, thanks for the kind words! Feel free to ask followups or contact me directly if you like.

Understanding DVDs
All DVDs (in NTSC) are 29.97, interlaced video.

When you give DVDSP a 23.98 asset (progressive, HD or SD), it then adds the appropriate frames (telecine) back to play back correctly on a TV set.

It's not a compatibility thing. The DVD spec was cemented back in 92 or 93. All DVD players follow this (it's different for blu-ray)

I'm not sure why you have footage in AIC (Apple's intermediary Codec.) I usually see that when someone puts HD footage through iMovie. I'd use Compressor to make M2V (mpeg-2) assets - I'd probably turn on the frame controls in Compressor (although the defaults are set to automatically turn on under the right circumstances.) It HAS to be an Mpeg-2 and DVDSP will do that if a video stream isn't compliant.

The alternative was to capture in a different format - AIC isn't great. ProRes is really the way to go.

I have no idea about how to set your camera correctly; I could figure it out, but you sound pretty intelligent; It sounds like you're shooting HD at 23.98 and your camera has the choice to spit out an interlaced feed (24@30i) as well as the true progressive feed (23.98.)

Does HD take up a lot of space?
Depends on how you think. Uncompressed HD takes up about 6 gigs/min where ProRes LT is about 1 gig a minute.

Your last question: Is it common to convert from HD to DVD
Sure - and there are bunches of ways to do it, some hardware based some software based (and almost always, software based takes longer!0

The real thorn is if you've shot progressive 30 (which some cameras do) Both fields are temporally captured at the same time, but displayed (on most TVs and blu-ray) field based. It's almost the same but not as good.

I don't think compressor has this specific bug - most of these problems are (unfortunately) workflow based. When I do jobs, I specifically test the workflow in advance and think it through. Despite Apple's general desire, these tools do require reading.

Best,

Jeff G

Apple Master Trainer
Avid Cert. Instructor DS/MC
Avid & Color Videos Vasst.com
Compressor Essentials Lynda.com


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