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Paul Dougherty
tape name alternative in tapeless world
on Oct 10, 2010 at 4:44:22 pm

On a tapeless job what is the effective replacement for tape name when I comes to organizing and riding herd on all the footage?

I see that Sony XDcam has seemingly unique (numerical) clip names which helps, though not exactingly a replacement. With the DVCpro the clip names I have are english/subjective like "Smith 1" and there is a # value the length of my arm associated with it called "user clip name" - not too user friendly.

If I have a theme bin filled with snd bites from a mix of sources (like the above) is there a similar way to sort the clips the way I always have... ascending tape names and ascending TC values so everything is clustered in a way that makes for an easy review.

Thanks,

Paul


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walter biscardi
Re: tape name alternative in tapeless world
on Oct 10, 2010 at 5:06:36 pm

Card 1, Card 2, etc...

Drive 1, Drive 2, etc....

In our case, when cards come back from a shoot, we immediately transfer everything to an archive drive that has a Master Control Number. So that becomes the "tape number" when we enter it into the system.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" Winner, Best Documentary, LA Reel Film Festival...

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Shane Ross
Re: tape name alternative in tapeless world
on Oct 10, 2010 at 9:45:11 pm

The name you give the folder you backup all this footage into is the REEL name. That makes tracking it easy. Please tell me you are backing up your tapeless media from the cards...the ORIGINALS...

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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John Heagy
Re: tape name alternative in tapeless world
on Oct 11, 2010 at 9:07:11 pm

That's a bit of conflicting advice. Are you suggesting Card 1, Card 2, etc... or, what I'd assume is a non-repeating "Master Control Number" for "Tape Name"? I would not recommend "Tape" names that repeat like "Card 1" obviously would.

Even though FCP is, unfortunately, filename based - there are a few third party tools that will save your bacon and link via Tape and TC, not to mention some DI workflows still use EDLs. These will only work if all your media has unique tape names and TC, so it's "good form" to do just that.

John Heagy


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Shane Ross
Re: tape name alternative in tapeless world
on Oct 11, 2010 at 9:25:08 pm

[John Heagy] "That's a bit of conflicting advice. Are you suggesting Card 1, Card 2, etc... or, what I'd assume is a non-repeating "Master Control Number" for "Tape Name"? "

Name the card backups just like you'd name a tape. Give a UNIQUE name to those folders. Either one that directly ties to a project...like AJ001, AJ002 for, say, ANDREW JACKSON. Throw in a letter for what camera, AJ001A, AJ001B. Or do it generically by location and date: LAX101110_01A for Los Angeles, 10-11-10, card 1, A camera.

[John Heagy] "Even though FCP is, unfortunately, filename based"

And timecode, and reel number... Bring in tapeless media and see. OH, and it ALSO reads the embedded and hidden GLOBAL CLIP ID. But you can't see it. Because you can take a card of P2 files...rename ALL the clips as you import them into FCP. Delete the media, and then BATCH CAPTURE and FCP will know what the source for those was. That from 0004GH, came the clip you named CU_Cow in field. Because there is a global clip ID there. You can see this with P2CMS and P2 Flow. And other formats also have global clip IDs. And FCP reads that.

[John Heagy] " there are a few third party tools that will save your bacon and link via Tape and TC"

Yup...when you aren't diligent in proper importing and organization of your footage. If you mess up, then you need these third party tools. But if you do things right...like I have for years working with tapeless, I have never had to resort to those tools. But I have them for other reasons...testing workflows and such.

Anyone who doesn't properly name their backup files UNIQUE names...is making a big USER error. Unfortunately there are so many places that users can make errors when they are in a hurry, or not paying attention, or are inexperienced with how to do things. Which is why it is IMPORTANT to learn how to do things right.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Paul Dougherty
Re: tape name alternative in tapeless world
on Nov 1, 2010 at 1:44:00 am

Shane, on rereading this thread I was impressed by your command of file based workflow, naming conventions, etc. I wanted to ask if you'd suggest further reading (a thread, article, whatever) for someone trying to bone up in a hurry to better work with complex projects (& often legacy ones that have been handed off to me).

Also you had said this (below) was the way to rename a directory (DVCpro example) to create the equivalent of unique reel numbers

UNIQUE CARD NAME:
>CONTENTS
>LASTCLIP


Extrapolating from that example a XDcam directory would be renamed thusly


Project X DAY1-CARD2
20100913225140
BPAV

and Canon...

Project X Card 2
DCIM
MISC

Assuming that this renaming with not interfere with Avid or FCP ingesting files correctly.

Thanks,

Paul


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walter biscardi
Re: tape name alternative in tapeless world
on Oct 11, 2010 at 9:49:53 pm

[John Heagy] "That's a bit of conflicting advice. Are you suggesting Card 1, Card 2, etc... or, what I'd assume is a non-repeating "Master Control Number" for "Tape Name"? I would not recommend "Tape" names that repeat like "Card 1" obviously would."

Not really. I'm telling you three different ideas. Which idea do you want to use? Card 1, Master Control #1, etc...

Card 1 is repetitive just like Tape 1 is repetitive. They're the same difference. So how do you differentiate all of your Tape 1's right now?

I'm sure you already have some sort of a naming structure in place to ensure you don't get your media confused. You just transfer that same idea over to tapeless.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" Winner, Best Documentary, LA Reel Film Festival...

Blog Twitter Facebook


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John Heagy
Re: tape name alternative in tapeless world
on Oct 11, 2010 at 11:01:32 pm

[walter biscardi] "Card 1 is repetitive just like Tape 1 is repetitive"

The one difference being "Card 1" can be the exact same card used over and over, where "Tape 1" would be new tapes. Someone would have to keep labeling new tapes "Tape 1" to get into trouble.

We all agree, I just wanted to make that distinction.

John Heagy


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Paul Dougherty
Re: tape name alternative in tapeless world
on Oct 28, 2010 at 2:51:06 pm

After starting this thread I was pulled into troubleshooting a bunch of other issues. I have 2 follow-up questions. First the unique folder name people suggest I generate contains each card (directory) or cards from one camera's shoot day? Like so...?


UNIQUE FOLDER NAME GOES HERE?
-->[Card01]
---->LASTCLIP.txt
---->[CONTENTS]

Also John had said ""there are a few third party tools that will save your bacon and link via Tape and TC" what are these tools?

Thanks in advance,

Paul


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Shane Ross
Re: tape name alternative in tapeless world
on Oct 28, 2010 at 4:54:20 pm

No...like this:

UNIQUE CARD NAME:
>CONTENTS
>LASTCLIP

That simple.

[Paul Dougherty] ""there are a few third party tools that will save your bacon and link via Tape and TC" what are these tools?"

http://www.videotoolshed.com/?page=products&pID=41

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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