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FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.

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Brody Dolyniuk
FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 4, 2010 at 12:33:24 pm

Hi all, I'm sure I'm going to upset all the die hard FCP users with my newbie stance. Sorry!

I just made the transition from Sony Vegas (PC) to FCP on my Intel Mac and thought I'd me moving up in the world by switching to the Industry standard video editor that FCP is renown to be. Now I find that every single audio or video element has to be converted to a single common format per project, and that any transition or simple effect I add must be rendered to be able to play it back? Wow.

I'm used to dropping ANY format audio or video file (wmv, mov, mp3, avi, mpeg) with any sample rate or frame rate into the timeline, or any combination thereof, adding whatever edits, transitions and effects I want and watching it back in real time without any rendering (with good quality, or at least preview quality if I was running many video tracks with multiple effects).

At first I thought I must have overlooked something with FCP but what I'm gathering from the forums is that I'm dead wrong.

If that's the case, I'm seriously disappointed and will have to reinstall Windows and Vegas via Boot Camp just so I can avoid the inevitable headaches from these setbacks. At this rate it's going to take me 20 times as long to do the same job as it would in Vegas.

How can this be, that FCP hasn't caught up with little old Vegas, a program that receives very little attention by comparison???

Please tell me I've overlooked something or that this is just a bad dream....


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Tom Wolsky
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 4, 2010 at 2:22:14 pm

Buh-bye.


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walter biscardi
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 4, 2010 at 2:35:25 pm

[Brody Dolyniuk] "I'm used to dropping ANY format audio or video file (wmv, mov, mp3, avi, mpeg) with any sample rate or frame rate into the timeline, or any combination thereof, adding whatever edits, transitions and effects I want and watching it back in real time without any rendering (with good quality, or at least preview quality if I was running many video tracks with multiple effects)."

Sounds like you didn't do your homework before making the switch.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

Blog Twitter Facebook


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Shane Ross
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 4, 2010 at 8:28:44 pm

If that is what you needed, then that is what you should stick with. If you have 20 different formats and frame rates and just need to mix them...then use Vegas. FCP doesn't work that way. FCP requires things to be one of a couple dozen EDITING formats (look at the Easy Setup list) for things to go smooth. You can't just dump garbage in the timeline and edit. If you want to deal with random garbage, then use Vegas...it is great with being able to handle that.

FCP has other strengths that Vegas lacks. That's why it is an industry standard, and why it is used for broadcast TV work, and film work. Vegas might be fine for short form TV work, but I don't know one shop using it for long form work (half hour to 2 hour projects)

There are all sorts of editing needs out there. One editing application doesn't fulfill all of those needs. That is why there are several different NLEs on the market. If you want to do one kind of work, you use FCP, another, you use Avid...another, Premiere...another, Vegas. They are all just tools, and tools to accomplish certain tasks.

You wouldn't use a hammer to put a screw into wood, it would tear it up, so you grab your screw driver. Is the hammer somehow INFERIOR to the screwdriver? No, it is different. Try to pound a nail into a wall with a screwdriver. Different tasks...different workflows...different tools.

As Walter said, you didn't do your homework to see if FCP would fit the kind of projects you need to accomplish.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Brody Dolyniuk
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 4, 2010 at 9:58:40 pm

Yep, you're right. I didn't do my homework.....shame on me. I needed the Mac for other applications and knew that I could no longer use Vegas, so I assumed that the leading MAC video editor, FCP would be compliant with most popular formats out there.

For example, the first thing I dragged in was a web video in QuickTime mp4 format. That's an Apple codec, right? When I dragged it into the timeline, I chose the option to convert the project/sequence's properties to match that of the video. And yet, it wouldn't play back the audio until I converted that to a separate AIFF stream.

I certainly didn't expect that I couldn't even watch back a section of the clip just by adding basic text over the video. Why can't it play back its own proprietary text format without rendering?

That means that for the 20 or so pieces of text I wanted to add, adjust, and then see the results, I would have to render each move? I don't see how you guys handle that....I'm sorry.

And as for the "garbage" comment, yes, sometimes it's necessary to grab an mp3 audio file, then a wav sound effect, and a couple different formats of video to make a final product (for me anyway). I've been spoiled I guess by being able to work with these formats instantly vs. having to wait to render them first. That's a lot of time spent waiting :)

Like you said, there are different needs for everyone, and I'm sure FCP offers some features that Vegas cannot do.....but right now I'm just concerned with an editor that handles the everyday, basic functions with as little hassle as possible.

And again, sorry to offend anyone....just venting frustration and looking for answers. Looks like I found them.

Cheers!



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Tom Wolsky
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 4, 2010 at 10:25:01 pm

"QuickTime mp4 format. That's an Apple codec, right?"

Neither are codecs.


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Harold DuShevits
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Oct 20, 2011 at 4:26:28 pm

Your answer, demeanor and attitude are reflected in your scrunchy face pic.


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Tom Wolsky
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Oct 20, 2011 at 4:38:28 pm

Eh? WTF's your problem.


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Shane Ross
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 4, 2010 at 10:36:59 pm

[Brody Dolyniuk] "the first thing I dragged in was a web video in QuickTime mp4 format. That's an Apple codec, right? "

MP4 is a codec that is available in QT. But not every codec that is in QT is editable by FCP. For the list of EDITING codecs, you need to look in the EASY SETUP list. FCP will work with it, but not without massive amount of rendering to get the video TO an editing format (the sequence settings). This is why you need to convert footage to an editing format.

[Brody Dolyniuk] "And yet, it wouldn't play back the audio until I converted that to a separate AIFF stream. "

Correct. Audio needs to be an AIF or WAV file, 16-bit stereo, 48khz. FCP is picky because it wants GOOD audio, not crap audio. Nor crap video.

OH, it can! If you use one of those editing codecs I talked about. I add text all the time to footage and while I get a green render bar (meaning when I am done I'll need to render), I can play it fine without rendering.

[Brody Dolyniuk] "I certainly didn't expect that I couldn't even watch back a section of the clip just by adding basic text over the video. Why can't it play back its own proprietary text format without rendering? "

You really can't just grab an application and start just using it...not without LEARNING about it. What is it capable of doing? How do you need to do things to accomplish what you want. You are doing the classic thing of grabbing a new NLE and just trying to get it to act like the last NLE you used. Sorry, it won't work that way. YOu have to learn how to use the new application.

[Brody Dolyniuk] "That means that for the 20 or so pieces of text I wanted to add, adjust, and then see the results, I would have to render each move? I don't see how you guys handle that....I'm sorry. "

We deal with formats that FCP can edit. Shoot with cameras that FCP can capture or import from. Convert outside QT formats into editing formats, then edit.

[Brody Dolyniuk] "And as for the "garbage" comment, yes, sometimes it's necessary to grab an mp3 audio file, then a wav sound effect, and a couple different formats of video to make a final product (for me anyway)."

That's fine..I do too. I just convert to a workable format before I edit. Converting an MP3 to AIFF with Compressor takes seconds. VERY fast. QT movies longer, depending on the source format, and what you are converting too.

[Brody Dolyniuk] "I've been spoiled I guess by being able to work with these formats instantly vs. having to wait to render them first. That's a lot of time spent waiting :) "

Well, typically FCP is used to capture tape formats, or tapeless formats, and work with those. And you can watch your footage as it is capturing, or start working with your footage as it is importing (Log and Transfer)...so we can work while importing or capturing. Because editors need to know what footage they have.

[Brody Dolyniuk] " right now I'm just concerned with an editor that handles the everyday, basic functions with as little hassle as possible. "

Your basic, everyday functions are obviously different than mine. I capture from tape...or P2, or SxS, or Canon 7D...and then edit that...and then output to tape, or to DVD. I might have some stock footage come in on DVD with timecode. I simply convert that to the same codec I am editing with, adjust the timecode to match the burn in timecode, and then continue to edit. I don't just have random QTs thrust in my direction and am asked to edit them. Nor do I search the web for QT movies and AVIs and start editing with those. IF you need to do that...use Vegas. That's it's strong suit.



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Michael Sacci
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 5, 2010 at 2:18:58 am

Also you CAN run Vegas on a Mac, in Bootcamp.


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Brody Dolyniuk
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 5, 2010 at 2:41:44 am

Thanks Michael, I just reinstalled Windows and Vegas via Boot Camp.

Oh and Tom....thanks for all your help.


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Shawn Hare
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Nov 7, 2011 at 10:16:46 pm

"You really can't just grab an application and start just using it...not without LEARNING about it"

Actually you can with Sony Vegas Pro. It's very intuitive.
I have both Mac and PC, and have been using Vegas for years.
I was able to basically use it immediately, and get very amateurish results, but that was because I was just playing with it, so see how it acted. I learned how to really use it by reading the manual -- Final Cut not so much. In fact, I was sitting there, just attempting to play with it, the same as I did with Vegas, and got nothing but frustration.

I have the same frustrations as Brody. What is supposed to be software for THE intuitive and easy-to-use computer turns out to be a pain in the butt.

And what exactly is it that Vegas can't do that FC can? Everyone keeps saying that it's so, but haven't explained what the something is.

It is my intention to take classes at New England Institute of Technology in Video and Audio Production, and in that class I'll be learning FC and Pro Tools. So in the meantime, I'm trying to wean myself off of Vegas and onto at least a good understanding of Final Cut Express, since it appears that FC is industry standard.

It's too bad that the ease of use of Vegas cannot be combined with the (supposed) power of Mac.


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Shane Ross
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Nov 7, 2011 at 10:49:08 pm

[Shawn Hare] "And what exactly is it that Vegas can't do that FC can?"

Be recognized by producers and clients as professional software. Perception is a big thing. But really, since I don't know Vegas, I have no clue what it can or cannot do. Closed Caption export?

[Shawn Hare] "in the meantime, I'm trying to wean myself off of Vegas and onto at least a good understanding of Final Cut Express, since it appears that FC is industry standard."

Uh...that will end. With the death of FCP 7 and Final Cut express (both are End of Life...no longer available) you will find more and more places transition away from FCP and to another app. Avid...Premiere...depends on their needs. It won't be FCX...at least not for a long while...unless it shapes up.

FCP is a dead end. It works now, but won't be an industry standard for long.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Shawn Hare
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Nov 7, 2011 at 11:29:22 pm

Oops! I said FCX when I meant to say FCP.
It's just that the majority of the folks in this forum (or so it seems) are suggesting that FCP is presently the industry standard, so I've got to get in somewhere, and I can't afford the pro versions of either FC or Avid or anything else for that matter. I've been able to upgrade to Vegas Pro at a huge discount. But anyway, the New England Institute of Technology trains on FCP and Pro Tools, so I've little choice ... except not to attend, which might be what happens anyhow since I'm laid off and not poor enough to get grants, and currently can only get a small portion of the tuition paid with loans, which doesn't include fees, books, travel expenses, etc. Sorry for rambling. I'm 48 and trying to make a complete change in life career, and it's a strange place to be right now.

But quickly, and more on topic -- I'd read some stuff a while back that many people were sorely disappointed in the newest version of FCP, and were leaving for Avid. In fact, when I was getting a tour of NEIT, one of the instructors intimated his preference for Avid. Does that seem to be the trend, and do you think that Avid will become the industry standard?


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Marcos Schreiber
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Sep 4, 2012 at 2:22:00 pm

You're right, Vegas is better ...
I'm a user of FCP and Vegas and unfortunately there is nothing that FCP do not make the best in Vegas.
I can make a list if you want...
These other comments show that Apple could become a religion ...


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Charlie Cornacchio
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 5, 2010 at 10:47:42 pm

Brody

It is difficult to switch from any NLE to another when you are so used to one platform. That being said, my experience with FCP has been all you said AND MORE! Final Cut Pro users always boast how FCP the industry standard - but if you take into account how long it takes and how many moves it takes to make simple adjustments in audio levels / clip trimming, etc then I cannot justify the extra expense in cost of time it takes to edit the same length projects in Vegas and in FCP. It becomes a matter of finance and Vegas wins that issue everytime. Say what you will to defend FCP but it is unfriendly, laborious, and completely inflexible for my taste. ......Oh.....and I DO edit complete 30 minute and 60 programs for Broadcast Television using SONY VEGAS - -every week, cost-effectively and with great quality,resolution and no issues.

Charlie


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Shane Ross
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 5, 2010 at 11:02:14 pm

Stop the bashing already...it is pointless. You found the NLE that works for you...that you are comfortable with. So use it. What can you POSSIBLY gain by coming here and saying "FCP sucks...Vegas Rules!"?? Nothing. I won't switch to Vegas...I like FCP and Avid too much. They work for me, and fit my comfort zone.

Don't switch from an NLE because you heard that FCP is the industry standard. It isn't. There is no standard...there are multiple industries, and multiple NLEs for each one. In Hollywood, Avid and FCP rule. But in other markets, Premiere and Vegas are dominant. WHO CARES what you use...as long as you get the job done, and deliver what the client wants.

DO you see us FCP users hopping onto the Vegas forum saying how much FCP rules and Vegas sucks? Well, I don't really know, I don't visit that forum. But I highly doubt anyone is. By coming here and saying "Wow, FCP really sucks...Vegas pwns!" what you are doing is trying to tell us that what you are using is SO MUCH BETTER than what we are using. You are trying to brag. Trying to show us up. Well, have fun trying...I for one am done.

Why did I even respond? It'll be to the wall...


Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Alf Hanna
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 10, 2010 at 12:51:26 pm

Having been using both I can agree that it's really about the right tool for the job. If all that's needed is throwing a few clips into a timeline, adding titles, audio tracks and simple cross dissolves, which for a lot of folks is about all that's needed, then Vegas seems to be a tool that I would want to be using. If I was working in a collaborative team of a number of different people, doing extremely complex work and ingesting everything that any client could throw at you, then I've found that the sheer number of FCP users out there makes it almost a must to know and work with. Similarly, many pro sound engineers seem to gravitate to Pro Tools (at least in my neck of the woods). There are many other sound engineering tools available, but if you are a working professional musician, and you want to just hand over tracks you record at home to mix with your bands's engineer, then you buy Pro Tools, struggle through it's professional level interface, (read a tweak for every need), or you pay the hourly rate.

That said, I'm about to post a question about why, after two hours of work and numerous Save All projects, that I've lost all my bin logging because of some endless loop snafu that required a Forced Quit to FCP in a long clip I was transfering... FCP can be very frustrating...something I've never *yet* experienced in using Vegas...

Alf


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Shane Ross
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 10, 2010 at 1:55:57 pm

[Alf Hanna] "after two hours of work and numerous Save All projects, that I've lost all my bin logging because of some endless loop snafu that required a Forced Quit to FCP in a long clip I was transfering... FCP can be very frustrating...something I've never *yet* experienced in using Vegas... "

Well, that isn't normal behavior. FCP doesn't normally crash after 2 hours, and when it does, it doesn't normally lose all of the bin information. I have had FCP crash on me a few times, and I have never had that behavior. It is something I have *yet* to experience with FCP. If FCP acted like this for everyone, I don't think ANYONE would use it, due to sheer frustration.

You can do things like Trash Preferences and REpair Permissions with Disk Utility. It might be a bad install of FCP, so you can try the FCS REMOVER from http://www.digitalrebellion.com, and then reinstall the app. Or it might be something deeper that would require a fresh install of everything, OS and apps.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Alf Hanna
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 10, 2010 at 3:51:58 pm

Thanks. I'll give those a try.

Alf


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Alf Hanna
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 10, 2010 at 4:41:00 pm

Permissions checked, no problem there...sigh...

Alf


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Michael Sacci
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 11, 2010 at 12:59:21 am

you don't check permission, you delete and FCP makes a new one.


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Brody Dolyniuk
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 11, 2010 at 3:04:31 am

Hey guys,

I appreciate all the response this has generated. It seems I'm not alone in my opinions about some things.

Taking all into consideration, we can agree to disagree on our favorite platform. Obviously many people have found uses for FCP that are deeper than the basic editing functions, and that's great. What would be greater yet is if FCP, as the industry standard editor, would also handle those basic functions for us everyday users.....I'm sure we can all agree on that. Why have to convert files via 3rd party programs before working with them in FCP when you can just drag something in and let the rendering process take care of that?

Same goes for having to render things like text and transitions....FCP should be able to handle that without batting an eye.

A great program should be easy to use, handle the everyday tasks with ease, and then be able to go deep for the more serious editors.

I'm saying this not to piss anyone off, but to maybe stir up something for the FCP developers so that they can cater to everyone and be the clear leader. This is a forum about Final Cut, so I brought my thoughts about it here. That's how any product gets better....through feedback and refinement.

For the record, I made the switch to Apple Logic and am very happy with it. I'm hopeful that one day I'll make FCP my single choice for video editing. It's not there for me just yet.

Peace out.


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Tom Wolsky
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 11, 2010 at 3:14:59 am

If you have comments for Apple post to feedback. That's what it's for. Posting here does nothing except make you seem like a troll.


All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Brody Dolyniuk
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 11, 2010 at 4:57:40 am

Oh, I don't know Tom, I get the feeling you've been "trolling" these boards a lot longer than me...

I believe I've got a right to make a comment or express an opinion on something pertinent to the topic.....this is a forum about Final Cut Pro and my comments were about FCP. I never said a harmful word about anyone's character here, I simply mentioned my disappointment about the product.

Like it or not, the points I brought up are valid, to me and apparently at least a few others. No one is forcing you to comment on the thread I started. Don't like it? You can move on to another thread. Although somehow I feel you're going to need to have the last word...

I may also post something on the Apple discussion boards too, again, because I believe others may eventually benefit from my input.



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Tom Wolsky
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 11, 2010 at 12:15:03 pm

Very clever. I guess you do understand the use of the word "troll" in this context.


All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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walter biscardi
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 11, 2010 at 11:45:56 am

[Brody Dolyniuk] "What would be greater yet is if FCP, as the industry standard editor, would also handle those basic functions for us everyday users.....I'm sure we can all agree on that."

FCP is not the "industry standard." It's one of three major NLE applications in use for broadcast and film. Many MANY folks would call Avid the industry standard that everyone is looking to catch up to.

It does handle basic functions for everyday users. Your problem is you want many more codecs to simply work in realtime rather than convert your material to proper editing codecs for using FCP. A few more codecs might be added in an upcoming release with the popularity of DSLRs coming on, but don't expect everything to be included since it's so easy to convert materials to the proper codec with available tools out there.


[Brody Dolyniuk] "For the record, I made the switch to Apple Logic and am very happy with it. I'm hopeful that one day I'll make FCP my single choice for video editing. It's not there for me just yet."

That's your decision and my advice would be for you to stay with Vegas since that meets all of your needs at this time. No reason to go to an editing platform that doesn't meet your needs.



Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

Blog Twitter Facebook


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Charlie Key
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 11, 2010 at 12:11:01 pm

Brody,

Maybe you should go on an FCP course before condemning it. I wouldn't like to pick up Vegas and just hammer away like I do in FCP because it obviously wouldn't work the same. You need knowledge of the program and knowledge of the relevant workflow to get the maximum out of said program.
The title of your thread is hostile and misinformed 'FCP vs Sony Vegas.. you've got to be kidding.' There is no 'vs', thats why all these platforms and programs co-exsist, different strokes for different folks. To do a general comparison based on your particular needs is childish and as adults we really dont need this conversation. If Vegas works for you, stick to it.

Good luck with your projects.




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Reginald Rodgers
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Aug 24, 2010 at 2:58:13 pm

I wish I knew this information 2 years ago.
This is fantastic information.
I did do my homework.
But, I never discovered this information.


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John Chay
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on May 18, 2010 at 3:54:53 pm

I"m not sure why all the FCP users take this so personally. Everyone has a right to complain about a product. I'm a FCP user and I appreciate someone taking the time to point out the flaws of FCP. In fact, I've been looking at buying a Sony Vegas and I'm trying to make an informed decision between Vegas and FCP. The more information I can get the better decision I can make so thank you Brody for your input.


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Ryan McMackin
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Aug 21, 2010 at 2:02:29 am

I feel I'm able to put my 2 cents in:) I have experience with pretty much all the major editors out in the market. from FCP/Premier pro Which I was trained on both in Collage. I've even used a little AVID, even Pinnacle before Avid incorporated the company.I'm currently a 3D/ film and motion graphics instructor. Where I teach both FCP and Premier Pro, I also have an independent film studio Dark Water Productions. Where we have completed a full length super natural thriller and have it distributed, feel free to look up IMDB for "Ominous" for valid credit. Now that's all said and done.

Here are my 2 cents.
I personally was comfortable using FCP and Premier pro but when I decided to tackle a full length feature project my budget was pretty low. Fortunately I used to own the domain name Transformersmovie.com and Paramount was gladly to pay me enough to fund our project. I had to purchase and new HD camera so I decided to pick up a Sony brand camera. I was about to order a licensed version of either FCP or Premier Pro next but the sales rep decided to throw a License version of SONY VEGAS 6 with the camera. I was like okay that's cool, I mean I've heard of Vegas and thought I doubt I would use it because I to felt it was an inferior editor.

Anyways to get to my point. When the camera arrived I saw the Sony Vegas 6 package with it and decided Hmmmmm maybe i'll save a few thousand bucks instead of buying a new Mac with Final Cut or a Licenses version of Premier Pro.

I decided to install it and give it a run, at the time I heard Sony Vegas 6 was capable of handling HD footage on such a weak processor, so I decided to test it out. As soon as I installed it and started importing footage in the time line. Right off the bat i was impressed with how fast you could drop in any format of video let alone audio clips, Then after looking around I started dropping in Effects it even came with a license version of Magic Bullet so I was really dieing to try that out. After dropping in multiple effects I decided to run the time line I was amazed that Sony played the time line in real time with stacked effects on HD footage on such a weak processor which was a dual core intel chip not a duo core but a duel core at the time.

So I decided to really give it an honest shot, I ended up editing our whole movie Ominous on Sony Vegas 6 and completed it in version 7 and till this day I'm on Version 9. I honestly love Sony Vegas now. The work flow is amazing.

I can see why forums all over are starting to favor Sony Vegas, Sony had done there homework and made an amazing editor and the cost of the software is pretty cheap. Just because it's a lower price doesn't mean it's inferior. Sony Vegas is really starting to turn heads in the industry. Eventually you will see it priced higher because it will be more in demand.

Look at Paranormal Activity movie he filmed it on a Sony HD camera and edited the whole project on Sony Vegas.

But all this is my opinion. But to everyone trying to knock Sony Vegas you might want to honestly give it a shot. You to might be surprised just like I was.

Ryan McMackin
Dark Water Productions
http://www.facebook/darkwatermovies


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dave chaimson
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Sep 9, 2011 at 1:42:10 pm

>>I can see why forums all over are starting to favor Sony Vegas, Sony had done there homework and made an amazing editor and the cost of the software is pretty cheap. Just because it's a lower price doesn't mean it's inferior. Sony Vegas is really starting to turn heads in the industry. Eventually you will see it priced higher because it will be more in demand.

Couldn't agree more. We'd love to hear about your successes with Vegas Pro (dave.chaimson@am.sony.com). There are many station groups, numerous studios, and countless independent filmmakers that have recognized the benefits the platform provides. Hope you saw the news this morning about VP11.


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Samuel De Loenen
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Mar 3, 2012 at 1:20:26 pm

Some interesting posts here.

I've been fiddling around with Avid MC and FCP for small private assignments in a non-professional context, trying to get the basics down.

Started with Avid (got it cheap), since this was recommended to me as industry standard, but had some gripes with that. The AMA system and the architecture of the whole NLE seemed to be quite complex and eating away a lot of processing power. I'm on a mac mini with footage on a usb connected external drive. Once, I fired up Avid with the drive still turned off which got me into serious troubles that eventually a friend of mine who works in the industry managed to guide me out of. Also the way you need to import images and the steps necessary to adjust them felt cumbersome, I got annoyed with dialog boxes appearing after certain actions, adding titles in marquee felt overly complex compared to FCP, basically the whole interface felt more sluggish and cumbersome in comparison to FCP. Also migrating a project from express to MC you need to follow a whole series of exact steps and even deleting a project is complex; if you don't follow guidelines and just try intuitively you'll end up deleting the project but not all of the media files. Again something that seems to be organized more simply in FCP, with the capture scratch and other folders.

I actually decided to give FCP a shot because the people I'd meet who were doing something with video, were all working with it, so I felt isolated and got the impression that Avid probably is used mainly by big industry (TV, film) and people who have worked in the industry for a longer period of time, while FCP is newer and more for small companies, freelancers, hobbyists, artists etc. (though I saw a list of Hollywood films that have been edited in FCP a while back).So I gave it a shot and liked the interface a lot better (the way the bin/sequence window can be organized for example), but didn't like the fact that it needed more rendering in the timeline, especially with any text you add on to your video track. There's also some good instructional dvds and books (Larry Jordan) that you can easily find on the internet, to get up to speed with this NLE fast.

Now what I read in this thread about Sony Vegas being able to handle many different formats, I find quite interesting. With so many codecs and formats out there, it seems quite nice just to be able to drop it into your timeline, not worry about it and let your NLE do the work. FCP7 is indeed quite limited in the types of media it accepts, but then again compressor works great and apparently you can create a virtual cluster of your processing cores (if you're on a multi core machine) to speed up the transcoding process (haven't sat down to figure this out and implement it yet, but I stumbled onto it on the internet). Also with audio, you can decide not to transcode it and render it in the timeline instead, since that doesn't take much time. Still, going through compressor is an extra step and worry and requires a more systematic approach.

I'm also a bit curious about Edius 6. I was at a small exhibition for industry ppl a while ago and it was the only NLE present there and being promoted. Apparently its architecture is designed to take advantage of multiple cores and therefore performs very well with HD footage (here's a video of an fcp-edius comparison, handling multiple tracks of HD footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcrbHB3q0DI), and for that it's getting increasingly popular, hence the sales rep of the store that organized the exhibition. From what I've read FCP7 doesn't take advantage of multiple cores. Since Edius runs on Win7, I told the sales rep about the troubles I had with WinXP when I was still running Avid Express and how mac had made my life a lot easier, but he said that since windows 7 has been pretty stable and that he actually gets mac people in his store with more bizarre problems than the windows ones, so go figure.

A windows user myself, I went through the effort of switching to mac which cost me some time and sweat. But I managed to adapt to it and found out about totalfinder, which addressed my frustrations with finder. I'm actually hesitant now to go back to PC, since I had codec/driver problems with that and many other unpleasant surprises that kept popping up. With mac it's all been working out of the box, no viruses, worries, etc. Still don't like the fact that if I double click on window it actually disappears instead blows up full screen, but hell, you can't have it all.

I think for now I will stick to FCP 7 since I'm starting to get this program down and don't feel like switching yet again. One of the nice things about FCP is that the suite is quite complete. You can color correct, edit sound, transcode, create dvds (dvd studio pro is not that hard to work with and gives you lots of options). Now I heard that FCX is getting bad reviews (though it remains to be seen how the FCX story evolves) and FCP7 is in a dead end street. Panasonic's cameras for example now record in ACVHD, which needs to be converted to prores under FCP7 and who knows if native support will ever come if Apple's focus is on X now. Some people are saying it'll all go back to avid, but the sales rep at the exhibition said that we are definitely now in a situation of multiple NLE's co-existing and that this will most likely continue in the future.

One more thing regarding Avid and FCP just to make things clear: those are just my personal experiences and opinions. In no way have i gone through the trouble of mastering these programs the way industry professionals do, nor do I have the same needs. I guess what's important for me is that an NLE feels intuitive, easy to learn and keeps things simple without getting shallow. It's not about having the supposedly best, most expensive or recognized piece of software. it's all about what your needs are and which tool fits them best. Cause that's all NLE's are really, just a tool to make something you want/need to make. And sometimes it's best to keep things simple.

Greets
Sam


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Chris Hiles
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Jun 15, 2012 at 3:35:50 pm

This is a fascinating thread, but I, like a few other posters am surprised at the animosity!
I think the analogy of the hammer and the screwdriver suits this issue very well.
If I knew that a new program was coming out that had all the functions of say Adobe Premiere, FCP and Vegas Pro, I would drop Sony Vegas like a shot. I simply want the most efficient tool to do the job.
My problem is it seems that most people just generalise too much. I would love to know some specific, real-world differences that people have experienced.
I am an experienced Vegas user, now on 11 on a pc. I am searching for info on the efficiency of running Vegas under Bootcamp, because I just love my Macbook Pro (bought my 1st Mac last year after being a committed pc user)
This week I had to render a short film, and my laptop pc decided it didn´t want to play. I imported the footage into Adobe Premiere on my Mac and got down to some urgent "learning by doing". It didn´t take me long to achieve what I needed by using help files and lots of Youtube tutorials, but I can safely say, it was in no way as intuitive and instant as Vegas.
Real world example:
I can simply drag the end of a clip with my mouse and it will add a fade automatically.
With Adobe Prem, you have to add the fade as a transition. (I know this is about FCP, which I would love to use if it can do what I need, but maybe there are some similarities?)
Real world example number 2:
Placing a clip (audio or video) over the end of another clip adds an automatic fade. That is such a time-saving function and works flawlessly. You can then easily (with one click) decided the type of fade and obviously move it around until it "fits".
Can FCP do simple things like this?
Also, I don´t just take it for granted that FCP "may have some functions that Vegas does´t have". Can anyone give me some real examples? I have already read that collaborating with others is easier because FCP seems to be "industry standard" (whatever that means) but this is not really important to me.
Thanks for any input.


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Marcos Schreiber
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Sep 4, 2012 at 2:50:41 pm

As I said before, this spirited comments arise because Apple has become a religion for them, leaving them blind to this topic and many others ...


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Ivan S. Nagy
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Oct 24, 2012 at 7:14:15 pm

It is all about artistic freedom, not religion not technology.
I have tried all NLEs and Vegas has won my heart, because it gives me the freedom to create, fast, transfer my ideas into reality.
Of course I am a rebel, do not succumb myself to any corporate airhead, religion or fad.
My 3 cents.
:-)))


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Brody Dolyniuk
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Oct 24, 2012 at 7:40:33 pm

Well, hello everyone. It's been a long time since I started this thread (and quite a thread it turned out to be), and much has changed, so I thought I'd better chime back in with an update.

While it was difficult accepting/adjusting the shock moving from Vegas to FCP 7, I'm happy to say I'm now a full Mac enthusiast and am loving FCP X. Although it was flogged during the first few months by long-time FCP users, for me, this is the program I've been waiting for.

Gone are the days of waiting for a file to render before playback, there are more formats which can be dropped in and edited immediately, I love the magnetic timeline (now that I've gotten used to it), and FCP X comes with a host of very usable transitions, effects, sound FX and more. I consider myself a "Pro-sumer" and FCP X really is a very easy to use, logical software that yields high quality results. I also love the graphic workspace/layout. Since they added the multicam feature and automatic synchronization it really speeds up the workflow.

Other built-in features like being able to choose popular formats for export, like YouTube streaming make it easy to get your finished projects online quickly with high quality.

I do apologize for my initial comments...I was shocked/venting in frustration and I upset off some of the long-time FCP users here. I'm happy to say that those days are behind me, and while if I was still on a PC I'd probably still be using Vegas, I'm very a happy Mac user with the new FCP X and Logic Pro programs.


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Fred Ferduso
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Dec 21, 2012 at 6:12:35 pm

Brody,
First of all, your initial comments were totally pertinent and reflected questions many others have. That's why we ended up on this topic. I have the exact same issues.

The responses are almost robot-like. Doesn't matter what forum you are on. If you ask questions about an Apple product, they are perceived as critical... and that is blasphemy. It is uncanny. Whenever I ask a question that involves something about Apple, I am trounced with almost the same answers you got.. doesn't matter the subject.

Didn't do your homework...
That's how it is. Works for us. If you don't like it, go back to using your "garbage."
Go complain on a Windows forum. Why are you here.

It is uncanny.

Obviously we ask questions for a reason.. and the reason isn't to get some arrogant answer that sounds like religion, not community computer help.

Anyway, I am curious about how Final cut addressed your issues. I have all the same ones.. I use camcorder footage, mp3s etc in Vegas no problem. I don't want to wait for renders or deal with recompressing. Are you saying you don't have to do that anymore? Or is it that you are used to it?

I run Windows in Parallels with a screaming fast new imac. I can easily run Vegas on my Mac. Is there anything about Final cut that makes it worth the learning curve and the hassle.

And to you fanboys out there, please don't start jumping all over me. I am trying to get some useful information, not your religious defensiveness.


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Tom Wolsky
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Dec 21, 2012 at 6:27:46 pm

Not clear what your question is. Camera footage? It depends on the camera footage. MP3? You can but you shouldn't. Compressed audio can create problems on output. Generally best to convert to AIFF or WAV at 48K before importing.

All the best,

Tom

"Final Cut Pro X for iMovie and Final Cut Express Users" from Focal Press
"Complete Training for FCPX" from Class on Demand
Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"



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Samuel De Loenen
Re: FCP vs. Sony Vegas....you've got to be kidding.
on Apr 8, 2014 at 11:27:53 am

To my knowledge you have to add fades manually at the ends of clips in FCP7. You can do it pretty fast though with shortcut keys.
I've heard good things about FCPX. Simple, fast (makes use of multicore, background rendering), subsequent updates/patches have adressed many issues.


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