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Need advice about editing from two different cameras

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patrick collins
Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on May 28, 2016 at 6:37:10 am

Hi everyone.. I have video footage from two cameras.. One claims to be h.264, 1280x720, 29.97, and the other is h.264 1920x1080 23.98...

For my first step, I converted both of these with quicktime to Apple Intermediate Codec, 29.97, 1920x1080 with the HDV 1080i preset.

I am also syncing the video footage to audio from a CD... So, as soon as I put these two videos into FCP with the separate audio track, the audio is totally out of sync.

Further, when I open the converted movies in quicktime, the one that was 29.97 now says it is 30fps !?!??!!??, and the other says its 23.96... WHAT??? Why is it not making it 29.97 like I asked it to?

... So basically I can't proceed with my editing tasks until I understand how in the world I am supposed to properly convert these files to a common frame rate which will stay in sync with my external audio...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks.


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Shane Ross
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on May 28, 2016 at 11:50:20 pm

[patrick collins] "For my first step, I converted both of these with quicktime to Apple Intermediate Codec, 29.97, 1920x1080 with the HDV 1080i preset."

Ugh...bad choice. That's a very lossy and ugly codec, and doesn't really keep timecode. You need to convert to ProRes422 1920x1080 29.97. Sorry.



[patrick collins] "I am also syncing the video footage to audio from a CD... So, as soon as I put these two videos into FCP with the separate audio track, the audio is totally out of sync."

CD audio runs at 44.1Khz. Camera audio runs at 48kHz. That's a different speed. How did you convert the CD audio? YOu should convert it to 48k AIFF 16 bit stereo. But even then, there's no guarantee that it'll be in sync. IN sync with what? Was it played back when you shot?

[patrick collins] "Further, when I open the converted movies in quicktime, the one that was 29.97 now says it is 30fps !?!??!!??, and the other says its 23.96... WHAT??? Why is it not making it 29.97 like I asked it to?"

How did you convert? With what tools? You should be using Compressor. And shooting two different frame rates when you intend to intercut the footage is never advisable. 23.98 progressive to 29.97 progressive will look stuttery.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on May 29, 2016 at 3:02:47 am

Thanks.. Ok I am doing this.. In the mean time, is there a way to copy "pen tool" points from one video track to another? I already spent a ton of time transitioning between the two angles, and it would be great if I can just copy all that automation data into the prores track.... ?



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Shane Ross
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on May 29, 2016 at 8:11:40 am

Pen tool? Did you reposition the shots? That can be copy and pasted, yes.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on May 29, 2016 at 8:35:11 am

Yes, I have the clips lined up properly, I just need to copy all the opacity "automation" data I added to the track.. How exactly do I do this?



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Nick Meyers
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on May 29, 2016 at 12:39:35 pm

to copy "Attributes" from one clip to another:

copy the first clip the usual way (Command C)
select the second clip,
now Option Command V to Paste Attributes.

in your case you want to paste the Opacity.


(you can right or control click the clips and find these commands, but learning the shortcuts is way quicker)



nick


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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on May 29, 2016 at 6:39:51 pm

Ugh.. I just converted everything to pro res and once again it did the frame rates wrong!!! WTF?! the original 29.97 got changed to 30fps despite the fact that the compressor settings say:

Apple ProRes 422
Quality: medium
Frame rate: 29.97
Automatic gamma correction
Progressive
Dimensions 1920x1080
scale: letterbox

And then my other camera's 23.98 footage back 29.96!!! What the hell?? why is quicktime screwing everything up? This is wasting so much of my time!!!

What am I doing wrong?



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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on May 29, 2016 at 8:15:18 pm

yeah this is just ridiculous.. Apparently I need to convert all my 23.98 to 30fps in order to make this work. So I have to convert everything all over again....



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Nick Meyers
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on May 29, 2016 at 10:26:19 pm

says who?

forget what Quicktime says,
what does FCP tell you?

and how have you been doing the frame rate conversion?
using the Frame Controls pane in compressor?

actually there are quit specific formulas you need to use in there to get the best results.
i don't know them, having very rarely to deal with frame rates other than true 24 or 25.
a fair bit can depend on if your source is interlaced or progressive, i beleive.

Shane has a lot more experience with 23.976 and 27.97


nick


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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on May 29, 2016 at 11:35:58 pm

I say, because when I lined up my new converted file with the old one, they video is totally out of sync with the audio.

Reconverting it to 30fps makes it work...

I have just been using quicktime, export to .mov, with the prores setting.



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Shane Ross
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on May 30, 2016 at 3:42:14 am

[patrick collins] "I have just been using quicktime, export to .mov, with the prores setting."

That won't work. If you want to change the frame rate, you need to use Compressor. You should be using Compressor anyway. QT Export isn't the way to do this right.

This is what you need to do:

23.98 to 29.97 via Compressor:

1. Drop clips you want to convert into Compressor

2. In Compressor, select your video then right click and choose NEW TARGET WITH SETTING > APPLE > FORMATS > QUICKTIME > APPLE PRORES 422. Or pick whatever codec you like to work with.

3. Click on that newly created compression setting to open it in the Inspector window. Click the Encoder tab. Click the Video: (Settingsā€¦) button. Make the frame rate 29.97. Not 30....29.97

4. Click the Frame Controls tab. Set Frame Controls to On. Set everything in there to BEST. Know that this will make the encode take a long LONG time. But it's the way to make the conversion come out best. Also know that there is no smooth way to convert 23.98 to 29.97 progressive. Adding frames makes the footage stutter a little. A lot of people won't notice, and can live with it. So it might be fine.

5. Make changes to the Filters or Geometry sections as needed. Those settings listed above are the ones critical to getting the proper 3:2 pulldown added.

6. Submit the compression.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on May 31, 2016 at 9:32:24 pm

Well-- I didn't end up doing the steps you last suggested because I was already like 75% through all the footage... It all looks good at 30fps, but what I am confused about is how to output my HD footage to compressor as HD... The individual .mov files that my FCP project is using are at 1920x1080.. The sequence settings in FCP is also set to prores 44 30fps1920x1080...

Yet when I send to compressor for the final output, on the video settings tab, if I choose "100% of source", it says it is 720x480.. Why is that not 1920x1080? or 1280x720 as I would expect for HD?



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Nick Meyers
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on May 31, 2016 at 11:46:39 pm

a likely possibility is that you dragged or copied all your clips to your timeline one go.

if you bring clips in individually, FCP recognises the clip's format, and asks if you want to change the sequence settings to those of the clip.

if you bring more than one clip, WITH DIFFERENT PROPERTIES to the timeline, FCP will simply leave the sequence at it's current settings, without asking you.

if you haven't set FCP up, the defualt setting for new sequences is DV NTSC.
720x480 29.976 fps

you need to make anew sequence with the correct settings.
the simplest way to do that is to make anew sequence,
then edit ONE of your clips into it, chose the format you have most of, probably your 29.97, or 30 fps, not the 24.

FCP will ask if you want the sequence to match the clip, say YES,

now you can delete that clip
and copy your edit from your original sequence into this new one.

it's likely you'll have sync issues, so check for that.


nick


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Nick Meyers
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on May 31, 2016 at 11:51:01 pm

oh, and for exporting, it's recommended that you do a simple export to QuickTime Movie, using your "Current Settings"
if you've rendered it should be quite fast.
THEN run that file though compressor.


nick


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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 1, 2016 at 2:10:46 am

Ok, so now that I have to rebuild my sequence for the 10th time (not really but feels like it), is there an easy way to get the start position of a clip and be able to move my clips in the new sequence to those start positions? It will be extremely tedious to have to line everything up with the audio all over again, and I am hoping I do not have to do that.



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Nick Meyers
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 1, 2016 at 2:24:55 am

well first thing would be to copy and paste the whole lot in one go from one timeline to the other.

but yes, you can select and move multiple clips

you can add marketers to either the sequence or individual clips,
hit m for marker

and if you have snapping turned on (the right-most button, top-right of the timeline)
clips that you are moving should snap to other clips or markers


nick


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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 1, 2016 at 2:32:43 am

I tried going from my previous sequence, and selecting all the clips and copying them, and pasting them into my new sequence. Since FCP incorrectly had my sequence at 720x480, when I go to my new 1280x720 sequence, all the clips that I paste in from the "bad" sequence are small and centered in the viewer-- I am assuming because they are at 720x480. I could not see a way to tell FCP: "DON'T DO THAT!!!!"... Is there a way?

All of this is sooo annoying!!!



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Nick Meyers
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 1, 2016 at 2:57:52 am

well you dived in without knowing what you were doing!
see it as a learning experience!


why are you now putting your 1920x1080 clips in a 1280x720 sequence???
maybe you down converted them when you made prores versions?
that's an odd thing to do, even if your final delivery is 1280x720

anyway, yes, the clips had to be scaled down when you put them into the smaller sequence.
they'll carry that scaling into the new one, but its easy to remove it.
select all the clips, right click on them and chose "Remove Attributes"
chose "Basic Motion" from the window that appears.
dont chose "Opacity"or you'll lose al the pen tool work you did!

if you are putting 1920x1080 clips in a 1280x720 timeline, however, this won't work,
well it will, but the clips will be their FULL size, so they'll all be oversized in the smaller sequence.

what you'd need in this case is the "Scale To Sequence" command in the Modify Menu.

with either method, you'll lose any scaling effects you may have already added, and have to re-do them

while you're at it you should open your sequence's settings,
go to the Video Processing tab, and set Motion Scaling to "Best"
still won't be the best scaling around, but it's the best you'll get within FCP.


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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 1, 2016 at 3:35:24 am

> why are you now putting your 1920x1080 clips in a 1280x720 sequence???

No idea.. Because I dragged my 1920x1080 clip into a new sequence and FCP said "hey this doesn't match, do you want me to make it match?" and I said yes.. and when I looked at the sequence settings it is at 1280x720........

UGH!!!!

I think it might be better for me to just give up.



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Nick Meyers
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 1, 2016 at 3:57:37 am

i guess that clip wasn't 1920x1080!

naw, don't give up,
you;re so close.

you could just put the clips in the new sequence, Scale To Sequence,
and be done with it.

nothing wrong with 1280x720,it;s a good size for uploads o Youtube and Vimeo, if thats want you're doing

up to you if you want t

if it were me, first, i'd check the clips properties,
maybe you have a majority of 1920x1080,and you by chance grabbed a 1280x720one first.
in the FCP Browser, you can see columns of al sorts of properties,
if it;s set to icon view,
right click on the background of the browser, and chose "View as List"

if you're majority of clips is 1920x1080, you might as well finish at 1920x1080.

the 1280x720 clips will be scaled up, but if this not a very important project, or just for fun, or to show some event,
then maybe it's ok

up to you how far back you want to go (re-process your original clips or not)



nick


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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 1, 2016 at 4:06:27 am

Ok, I just went and took a 2nd look to try to understand what is going on.. I think I just got confused is all... Camera 1's footage is 1280x720, camera 2's is 1920x1080... So when I told compressor to make a 30fps version of camera 1 footage, it was automatically at 1280x720, and that's why FCP made the sequence that aspect ratio...

So, I just setup a batch job in compressor to turn all camera 2's clips to 1280x720 so they will match with camera 1... Once that's done then I will be working with a 1280x720 sequence...

I have decided to not give up.



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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 2, 2016 at 7:19:07 pm

Wow.. Ok, so it looks like I got everything perfect.. And now compressor is completely failing me.

In FCP did export sequence, with current settings, and output that to a .mov file...

Then I brought that into compressor, and set it to do h264, 8000kpbs, 30fps, aac 44khz 192kbps, set it to use 100% of source, it shows 1280x720...

I let that compress.. 4-5 hours later, it's done... I open the file in quicktime.. everything looks beautiful.. I skip ahead in the timeline.. it stops updating the video... I play from the middle of the video.. the video frame is stuck, and only audio plays.. It appears that it only encoded the first 10 minutes or so of the video...

Then I checked the original exported from FCP uncompressed video, it plays totally fine. I can scrub around no problem... No video problems.. playback is flawless up until the end.

So I restarted my computer, and tried again... Dragged the original to compressor, got the settings h264, 8000kbps, etc.. 4-5 hours later, got the exact same results... This time I just let the movie play, after about 10 minutes, the image gets crazy pixelated with compression artifacts everywhere, and eventually the picture just freezes.. audio continues to play throughout the rest of the movie.

What the hell?????

I just started doing compression from quicktime 7, so that's going now, and I am hoping that will work. But.. why is compressor doing this? I've never seen this sort of thing happen before.



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Shane Ross
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 2, 2016 at 7:20:30 pm

What MacOS are you running?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 2, 2016 at 7:45:05 pm

10.6.8. this is on a 2008 power mac that doesn't have an intel processor, so I am stuck with that OS.



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Shane Ross
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 2, 2016 at 7:47:18 pm

[patrick collins] "a 2008 power mac that doesn't have an intel processor, so I am stuck with that OS."

2008...that's a MacPro, and it has an Intel Processor. G5's were the last that had motorola processors. But that's besides the point..10.6.8 is where you should be.

Try COMPRESSOR REPAIR from digitalrebellion.com. Might be a free demo. If not, it's a toolset that is vital for FCP, totally worth it.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 2, 2016 at 7:51:44 pm

Oh yeah you're right... Sorry-- I rarely use this machine so I forgot what it was, but it is indeed the intel xeon. I think I probably never put Lion on it then because of all the horrible things people were saying about Lion at the time.



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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 2, 2016 at 7:47:15 pm

I should also mention that my previous 720x480 version worked fine going through compressor with those same h264 options...



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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 2, 2016 at 9:44:01 pm

Wow.. just wow.. The quicktime compressed version does the exact same thing.. It's almost like some invisible force does not want this video project to get completed. It's been nothing but painful every step of the way.... WOW!!!

I guess. I am going to try from FCP doing "send to compressor" and see if that works..



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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 3, 2016 at 2:33:27 am

So... I tried "send to compressor".. I get the exact same thing.. Everything is fine in the beginning and then the video just drops out. If I skip ahead I see:

http://collinatorstudios.com/www/picasso.png

WHAT THE HELL!?!?!?!??!!?

O M G...

I can't stand this anymore.

So I have the uncompressed version that is PERFECT... and plays totally fine.. and no matter what I do, I cannot get a h.264 version of this for uploading to youtube.... WHAT THE HELL!!??!?!?!?!?!?!



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Nick Meyers
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 3, 2016 at 4:10:34 am

when you exported, did you have it set to "Self Contained" (bottom of the Save window)

i wonder if you made a reference file instead, and now there's some problem accessing a render file?

i would go back to your sequence,
select all,
Control B (everything will be "un-enabled" or "muted")
Control B again, (everything is re-enambled) and you will have flushed your renders

re-render the entire timeline COMPLETELY.
to do this, go to Sequence Menu, Redner All, make sureal the Video types, including "Full" are checked
then in the same menu, hit Both (or option R)

when rendered, export as self contained Quicktime move, Current Settings.

this is very belts and braces, with a fair bit of redundancy,
but should give you a clean un-corrupterd file.

then try to compress it.


nick


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patrick collins
Re: Need advice about editing from two different cameras
on Jun 4, 2016 at 2:36:19 pm

I think your ctrl-B suggestions saved the day-- I finally was able to get a file out of compressor that plays through to the end... I can finally put this project behind me!

Thanks Nick & Shane for all your help along the way during these trying times!!!



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