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Noam Osband
How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 10, 2016 at 4:49:33 pm

I'm done with a 23 minute doc in FCP 7. I want to hand it to a colorist for a day to make it that much better.

I found one guy who I thought was gonna work within FCP 7, but he wants the XML to work in Davinci. Problem is i want to be able to potentially change subtitles (for distribution in a different country) or to be able to make a shorter version out of it (to pitch to web channels), and I want the corrections made in FCP 7 so I can do that.

i figure my options are:
1 - Find a colorist who works in FCP 7
2 - Have it done in Davinci and if i need changes made for another version, find someone to work a day on it to make those changes.

i prefer the flexibility of #1. I don't know however if professional color correction can be done in FCP 7 and/or if I'm just being stupid here. I'm used to being a one man band so maybe i'm just not good at how to work with others.

Thoughts? Should I just fine a colorist to work within FCP 7? I want color correction, not color grading. It's a doc where I'm not really messing with the look of the clips.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 10, 2016 at 4:54:45 pm

What kind of changes will you make later? Are you saying, "I don't have edit lock yet" or are you saying, "I might want to revisit this project down the road and re-cut it"?

If it's the first, wait until you have edit lock. If it's the second, send it to the colorist when you're ready, knowing that you'll need to send it off to the colorist again some time.

Pick your poison.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Noam Osband
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 10, 2016 at 5:00:04 pm

More the second. I guess what you're getting at, and what I don't know, is that to really do an A+ job, no-one is going to be making corrections in FCP 7. They'll be using something else so I'll have this problem. Am i right in thinking that is the subtext?


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Dave LaRonde
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 10, 2016 at 5:23:58 pm

Right. If you don't trust yourself to do the color correction, it's better to have it done. Consider each iteration of this project as an individual trip to the colorist.

And because FCP7 is five years old, and not supported for the past 3 years, no self-respecting colorist is going to use it.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Noam Osband
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 10, 2016 at 5:24:55 pm

you're right. thanks for talking me through this.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 10, 2016 at 5:27:11 pm

Sure thing.

If only Apple has made FCP 8 and FCP 9, right?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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David Roth Weiss
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 10, 2016 at 5:49:00 pm

FCP 8 & 9 does exist - it's now called DaVinci Resolve 12.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Shane Ross
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 10, 2016 at 6:11:01 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "And because FCP7 is five years old, and not supported for the past 3 years, no self-respecting colorist is going to use it."

No...we won't. But we still use COLOR, that's part of the Studio. I still get clients who come to me with FCP 7 projects, often docs they've been working on for years. I just SEND TO COLOR, and then send back to FCP. Very slick workflow. Add handles and you can slip shots all you want, make changes in FCP just fine.

Now, if the colorist is using RESOLVE, they can send back a full exported QT file, with no text...and you bring that into FCP and all all the text you want. And I THINK they can export back out an XML and separate QT files and you can relink those in FCP. I know it works with FCX...ask them. Or see if you can find someone who still uses COLOR.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Noam Osband
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 10, 2016 at 10:56:00 pm

it seems then the best option for me is to find someone who work in Color, right? Again, given the fact it's color correction and not color grading, I imagine Color will do a perfectly fine job. thoughts?


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Shane Ross
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 10, 2016 at 11:07:39 pm

[Noam Osband] "
it seems then the best option for me is to find someone who work in Color, right?"


Correct.



[Noam Osband] "Again, given the fact it's color correction and not color grading, I imagine Color will do a perfectly fine job. thoughts?"

Color correction and color grading are the same thing...just a different name for it. ALthough GRADING can be more complex, with lots of power windows and layers...but Color does all of that. Yes, Resolve has more features, but Color is just as capable. Was used to grade many things

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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David Roth Weiss
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 10, 2016 at 11:21:33 pm

[Shane Ross] "Color correction and color grading are the same thing..."

Well, not exactly... Most would regard color correction as "primary" color work, while grading is considered "secondary" color work.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 10, 2016 at 11:17:50 pm

Noam,

Beware, Apple Color has innumerable issues importing such elements as stills, etc. It can make prepping a project for Color a real bear, and that can be expensive for you too.

Since you said you're NOT looking for a grade, but rather color correction, that should be a breeze right in FCP7.

I'd like to suggest that you completely avoid going out to another app altogether until you are 100% picture locked, and then let a Resolve colorist do the job properly, with a complete CC and grade. Remember, many very hi-level companies did ALL their color right in FCP for ages before Color was released.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Shane Ross
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 10, 2016 at 11:36:01 pm

Whatever...I did mention that. That a grade is a bit more. And yes, Color can grade, or simply correct. As for stills, very easy to prep a sequence to not include them (and titles) and then bring them back later.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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David Roth Weiss
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 11, 2016 at 12:00:22 am

[Shane Ross] "As for stills, very easy to prep a sequence to not include them (and titles) and then bring them back later."

Well, that all depends... I have had many projects where I fought hard to get the producers to allow me to use Color, but the prep was such a bear they forced me to work right in FCP.

If the sequence has numerous transitions (fades, dissolves, wipes, etc) from moving video to stills, that can easily add an entire day to the back and front end of even a relatively short project - on a long-form project, forget about it.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Noam Osband
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 11, 2016 at 12:06:05 am

What can someone do in Resolve that they can't in Color or FCP 7? Just curious. What would make that a better final product?

(Thanks for all the help today guys. This forum, as always, remains a life saver and it's damn shame I can't give y'all a proper handshake of gratitude.)


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Shane Ross
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 11, 2016 at 12:12:13 am

[Noam Osband] "What can someone do in Resolve that they can't in Color or FCP 7? Just curious. What would make that a better final product? "

Well, Resolve AND Color allow you more control over the color levels by far than FCP. The 3-way color corrector is only good for minor adjustments. Want to push things, or make extreme changes, or have far more color control...use Resolve or Color. POWER WINDOWS...FCP doesn't have that. That's isolating areas and grading only that area.

Resolve and Color produce far superior results than FCP 7. Now, if you had the original COLORISTA II plugin, that did wonders. Allowed for better color control, power windows. But like FCP 7, was discontinued years ago.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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David Roth Weiss
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 11, 2016 at 12:21:44 am

[Noam Osband] "What can someone do in Resolve that they can't in Color or FCP 7? Just curious. What would make that a better final product? "

I could write a book on the subject Noam... It's completely different from the toolset in FCP, but not that different from Color, except that it's vastly more modern, has a much larger toolset, much more advanced in it's round-tripping and export capabilities, handles many more codecs, and has much more advanced color processing.

However, as I said before, since you said you need basic color correction at this point, NOT a complete grade, you're spinning your wheels at this point worrying about this.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Michael Gissing
Re: How should I color correct my movie if I want to be able to make changes later?
on Mar 14, 2016 at 6:49:20 am

Round tripping via xml between FCP7 and Resolve works. There will be things like reframing or speed changes that might not round trip perfectly but it mostly works.

Do a textless xml export and then add your titles when the grade comes back. Make sure you ask the grader to render individual files with handles and export an output xml from resolve Do not choose the FCPxml option which is FCPX only.

Resolve is a vstly better grade tool than Color. I started by grading in FCP7 (clumsy) then went to Color (better but hopeless with stills) and now Resolve which is a lot better, especially with power windows tracking, stabilisation and lots more.


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