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Emmanuelle Antolin
Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 7, 2016 at 2:08:59 am

Hi All,

I'm editing a documentary with lots of archival photos - not negatives.

What is the best workflow for editing?

At what resolution should I scan? (For example, if I want to zoom in a lot and it not pixelate).

Thank you!

Emmanuelle


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 7, 2016 at 3:20:35 am

If you want to do a lot of movement and zooms on these pictures, you shouldn' be using FCP to do it. It's just not up to the task. You'll want to do the Ken Burns stuff in Motion or After Effects.

How do you know how detailed a scan you need? Grab a ruler. Measure the tightest shot you'd want on a still. Let's say it's a lady and it's an inch wide. Now multiply that measure by the horizontal pixel count of your video -- let's say it's 1920.

Thus, you would scan the whole picture at no less than 1920 dpi. 1920 * 1 = 1920. Call it 2000 dpi to be on the safe side.

Since FCP freaks out at any still more than 4000 pixels wide, you can easily see why you use something other than FCP for Ken Burns moves.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Emmanuelle Antolin
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 7, 2016 at 5:04:20 am

Thank you Dave!


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Emmanuelle Antolin
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 7, 2016 at 5:11:39 am

Dave,

I think based on your suggestion, I'll scan at hi-res, create lo-res jpegs, and do an offline edit with lower res photos in FCP.

Once picture is locked, then have another editor create the "Ken Burns" effects in another program. Do you know how well Premiere holds up for this?

And may I ask: would a scanner that does 1200x2400 DPI be high quality enough?

Thanks!

Emmanuelle


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Misha Aranyshev
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 7, 2016 at 10:08:20 am

What are your deliverables? Is it HD (1920x1080), UHD (3840×2160), DCP (1998×1080 or 3996×2160)? Scanning a photo at 1200 DPI means there are 1200 pixels in every inch of your image.


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Emmanuelle Antolin
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 12, 2016 at 7:07:49 am

Hi Misha,

It is Is it HD (1920x1080).

Thanks!

Emmanuelle


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Misha Aranyshev
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 14, 2016 at 10:03:17 am

Well, every at 100% 1.5" of your photo will fill the width of your frame.


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Misha Aranyshev
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 14, 2016 at 10:08:47 am

What I meant is every 1.5" of your photo will fill the width of your frame at 100% zoom.


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Roger Poole
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 14, 2016 at 1:54:46 pm

Pixels have a fixed size of 72ppi on screen. Taking a 35mm film frame, it has a width of 36mm, or 1.41 inches. So a scanning resolution of 1327ppi would be required to fit 1920 @ 72ppi. That's the theory but in practice you would double the scanning resolution to capture greater detail in each 8 bits per channel 24 bit pixel. Then resize - 50% post scan to display at 1 to 1.

Scanning for print is different because pixels can be made smaller to achieve photographic like prints.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 14, 2016 at 5:30:56 pm

[Roger Poole] "Pixels have a fixed size of 72ppi on screen."

Mmmmm... not exactly true. You can watch a 1920x1080 video on a phone. You can watch the exact same video on an 80-inch flatscreen. Which one is at 72 pixels per inch?

The 72 was the best guess of the Photoshop people, made more than 20 years ago, about the best resolution to use for preparing Photoshop documents to be used in non-linear editors, which at the time were all standard-definition.

Thus, that 72 is an outdated term and no longer applicable. It's kinda tough to equate the resolution of a 720x480 SD screen to 4K video and higher.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Roger Poole
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 14, 2016 at 9:57:16 pm

Like I said, the native size of 1920 is 26 inches at 72ppi. On a 60 inch screen the pixels are just enlarged, which is why the picture looks sharper on a smaller screen when viewed close up.


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Roger Poole
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 14, 2016 at 10:16:30 pm

Dave, export a freeze frame from a 1920x1080 sequence. Take that into Photoshop and note the resolution.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 15, 2016 at 12:12:20 am

[Roger Poole] "export a freeze frame from a 1920x1080 sequence. Take that into Photoshop and note the resolution."

Well, I could, but it would be irrelevant. The notion of DPI in a video editing application has always been irrelevant. 72 DPI was just a guess 20 years ago, and higher-resolution video make it even more irrelevant today.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Roger Poole
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 15, 2016 at 4:36:40 pm

Is it a car or is it an automobile? DPI and PPI are the same thing, just different terminology.

http://www.endmemo.com/sconvert/dpippi.php


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 15, 2016 at 5:30:40 pm

[Roger Poole] " DPI and PPI are the same thing, just different terminology."

True. I think we're start to disagree over trivial points... not good! I'm done on the topic.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 7, 2016 at 3:13:00 pm

I don't know whether Premiere can animate large stills. I do know Motion or After Effects can.

I'm unsure what you mean by 1200x2400 dpi. "DPI" is a measure of resolution, Dots Per Inch. "Dots" is synonymous with "Pixels". If you have a scanner that is capable of creating images that are 1200 pixels by 2400 pixels, it is woefully inadequate.

If you mean your scanner works at a resolution between 1200 and 2400 pixels per inch, you might be okay. The scanner included with the printer on my home machine is capable of a 4000 pixels per inch, and it's just a lowly ink-jet printer. Judge for yourself.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Emmanuelle Antolin
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 12, 2016 at 7:06:56 am

Thanks much for the insights.


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Roger Poole
Re: Scanning for theatrical film
on Jan 7, 2016 at 4:05:22 pm

Never save your scans as jpeg. That is a compressed format which FCP7 hates as it has to uncompress them on the fly to play them. Use Tiff, which is an uncompressed format, otherwise you will run into the FCP7 "out of memory" error.

Scanning resolution for video is a complex subject. In video we are used to pixels, or PPI whereas in print or scanning, DPI is the rule. However DPI and PPI, dots per inch - pixels per inch can be considered the same and are a form of measurement. TV screens have a resolution of 72 pixels per inch regardless of the screen size. The actual size of a 1920x1080 video image is 26.7 X 15 inches @ 72PPI. So, taking a photograph which was 13 X 7 inches you would have do double the 72 dpi scanning resolution to 144dpi achieve an image which would fill the 1920X1080 video frame, pixel for pixel. However, scanning at a higher resolution will give a better quality image and some wriggle room if you need to Pan & Scan. Things get even more complicated if the original is small and you want to display it bigger. Prior to scanning you need to have in mind how you wish to use that image. Bear in mind that 26.7X15 frame size and the size of your photograph. Get out your calculator and work out the scanning resolution required for that image.

Like I said, it's complicated :o/


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Dave LaRonde
---- Or -----
on Jan 7, 2016 at 9:18:14 pm

You can always do it the old-school way: set up a copy stand, and shoot the stills, including camera moves. You wouldn't have the same amount of control, and you'd need a good idea of the timing of the moves, but then the images would be like any other footage in the project.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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