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FCP7 on Yosemite!

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Michael Brown
FCP7 on Yosemite!
on Nov 26, 2015 at 3:25:51 am

Folks, I'm back with good and bad new, hence questions:

I've finally taken the dive and a 3.3 Mgz 5K iMac (32 Gb RAM 3 TB Fusion Drive / 120 Gb SSD internal, and yes, Media is ALL on external 4TB Hard Drives connected via USB 3) is standing in front of me with FCP 7 running on it quite nicely (although I haven't had time to play with plug-ins yet). That's the good news.

FYI:
* Current project involves 170 hrs+ various HD Media (different codecs, all painstakingly converted to ProRes 422 LT on my MBP 15" – long nites letting it work).

* For the time being working with up to 7 simultaneous video tracks (7 cams, which means 14+ Audio tracks (studio mixes add up), syncing with slates (and audio phasing when slates are missing), until I get the multitrack issue below solved)

So far so good… IO have a lot of experience with this workflow, so I'm surviving, but:

Q1: at one point when I add more than 4 or 5 clips to the TL (overlaying due to syncing several cams), the sections that include the stereo studio mixes need audio rendering – only those sections! The mixes are placed on A1 (a & b). The video clips with their own audio start on A5 to A9. Since these sections need rendering, I can't use the A1 audio tracks to verify sync by phasing left & right balances because of the beep beep. However, If I turn off (on the audible button) 4! used audio tracks (I mean 2 stereo tracks) anywhere below A1, no matter which ones, the red render line disappears and I can use the mute buttons again to choose, for ex. A6a and A8b (to sync tracks 6 & 8). As I click off the tracks, it's really when I hit the 4rth track that the render issue disappears, and these tracks don't have to be paired (for ex. A5b to A7a). I've encountered something similar before, long ago, and I haven't the faintest clue how I resolved it back then. I tried re-importing new audios with different bit rates to no avail. I re-exported the studio mixes to different bit rates as well. There is a worm in the can. And yes of course all is 48 KHz. My sequence setting is set at ProRes 422LT 48 KHz 16-bit channel grouped where I can only choose between 8, 16 and 24-bit audio; However, the browser claims the sequence is 32-bit floating point! I tried creating a new sequence, no difference.

Q2: I switched from my 5-yr old MBP to this fine machine in order to view on 3 screens – that works like a charm –, but also because on the MBP multiclip was bogging down in playback after a few seconds when I had 4 multiclips or more. I will be needing 7 as of now, quite frankly. So I assumed the issue was Processor speed, RAM and graphics cards, which I boosted like hell by moving to the iMac. (I was on 2.3 GHz / 8 GB RAM and I really feel the difference)

Well whaddaya know?… multiclip playback bogs down exactly like on the MBP. I have read and re-read as many threads as I could, tried just about everything recommended, to no avail.

Who can guess what I'm doing wrong? I'm convinced it has to do with my settings, I can't believe the machine can't handle it. Or is it an FCP / problem alone?

Desperately anxious for advice, thanks folks!




Q1:

Michael Brown


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Nick Meyers
Re: FCP7 on Yosemite!
on Nov 26, 2015 at 3:09:33 pm

"Q1: when I add more than 4 or 5 clips to the TL (overlaying due to syncing several cams), the sections that include the stereo studio mixes need audio rendering"

up your RT audio playback in your FCP user preferences
default is 8 tracks, default is crazy low.

"Q2: multiclip playback bogs down exactly like on the MBP... I assumed the issue was Processor speed, RAM and graphics cards"

drive speed comes to mind.
you might need to work off raided drives?


nick


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Michael Brown
Re: FCP7 on Yosemite!
on Nov 26, 2015 at 7:37:39 pm

Hi Nick,

Q1: silly me! I tried, that's it of course! I'm sure I'd been there before, just didn't pay attention in setting up my user prefs ;-) Great!

Q2: I remember reading a rather old thread response in which one of you guys claimed dividing media over 2 drives helped solve that problem. So last night I cleared some unneeded footage from my media drive (it was pretty full – almost 3-1/2 TB out of 4), and that seemed to help this morning when I rebooted the whole gizmo.

Later today I realized that when the viewer is set to 4 angles, it ran very smoothly! All 4 angles had a camera applied. When I switched to 9 angles in the same sequence (hence with only 4 angles occupied), it started bogging again. I wondered whether FCP maybe couldn't handle the information conflict of not having all angles used, so I created a multiclip with 6 angles and opened it in 9-angle view, but unfortunately it bogs as well. Now my Lacie 4TB via USB 3 has 850 Gb available. I have been told that USB3 is just as stable and faster than FW 800. Should I try running on FW via Thunderbolt instead? Is there a difference? And if I do, I sacrifice one display, since both externals use up the TB ports.

Does that make any sense? Any ideas?

Best greetings from Hamburg ;-)

Michael Brown


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Nick Meyers
Re: FCP7 on Yosemite!
on Nov 26, 2015 at 10:20:21 pm

"you guys claimed dividing media over 2 drives helped.... So I cleared footage from my media drive"

i dont understand, did you spread your media over more than one drive, or just clear some space?


Apple white paper:
"The target data rate of Apple ProRes 422 LT is approximately 102 Mbps at 1920 x 1080 and 29.97 fps"

another source:
"USB 3.0 has a maximum bandwidth rate of 640 MBps"

while that may seem like you can run 6 steams of ProresLT, i guess your real world experience shows otherwise.
maybe you've hit the limit of the spinning disk itself.

"Should I try running on FW via Thunderbolt instead?"
FW 800 is slower than USB3, so no.
Thunderbolt is faster than FW, but a FW drive hooked up via Thunderbolt wont get magically faster.

a Thunderbolt drive is faster than a USB3 drive,
but if you've hit the limit of the spinning disk that might not help

in which case if you could be bothered, you could try to put angles 1-3 ion one drive, and 4 and up on another,
but 2 dives RAIDED together (as RIAD-0) will have the speed of two rives, and appear as one.
which would be a lot simpler
you can buy drives with 2 drives inside that can be set up like this.

i jsut read this:
LaCie 6TB 2big Thunderbolt 2 Series 2-Bay RAID
"Max. Data Transfer Rates of 360 MB/s"

so maybe this wont work? this isn't my strong point, sorry

another approach would be to media a mange your 1920x1080 down to 1280x720, or even SD
you;d get more streams that way.



nick


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Michael Brown
Re: FCP7 on Yosemite!
on Nov 29, 2015 at 5:44:02 pm

Hi Nick,

You may have nailed it. As I posted seperately:

[Nick Meyers] "but if you've hit the limit of the spinning disk that might not help"

It appears that the drive speed is an essential factor. Up to a few days ago I was using 4TB LaCie drives, one for the ProRes converted media, the other for render files and original media storage, and despite the much faster iMac, playback in multicam was bogging. My drives were connected via USB 3, previously on the MBP via FW800.

[Nick Meyers] " i dont understand, did you spread your media over more than one drive, or just clear some space?"

In reply to this: I freed space and have been running only 1 drive for my media, but I made a note and if all else fails, I will try your idea of splitting my media onto 2 drives.

So I splurged 350 bucks on a LaCie 4TB Thunderbolt drive, sacrificed one port and hence one additional external monitor (that I could always try to connect with USB), hoping thunderbolt would make the difference.

IT DOES NOT! In fact, FCP multicam works better on the previous drive! The thunderbolt drive takes longer to restart playback once it's bogged (sound keeps rolling and it eventually catches up) than hitting the pause button twice to get playback rolling again in sync. I am tempted to send the damn thing back. I cannot afford 350 bucks for lousy experiments anymore.

What does work in multicam is setting your RT playback to medium quality and half-frames when multicam playback is checked and unclicking auto render! The playback is of course stuttery, but for the 1st editing process it works, even on the 9-angle set-up. Once you uncollapse your multicam clip for decent preview, effects etc… then you can uncheck multicam playback and you see what you deserve. So that's 'satisfactory'.

Q1: Do I understand correctly that the thunderbolt drive being a typical 7200 rpm drive is not substantially sped up by the thunderbolt connection and that my investment was to little to no avail?

Q2: Does all this mean that for better playback conditions in multicam (9 angles) I have to move on to an SSD drive? The financial aspect is frightening.

Thanks for your invaluable support!

Michael Brown

Michael Brown


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